Stewart healthy & moving well. Rivera's Party Line a Red Herring.

[Peppers90 NC]

The running game was inconsistent particularly on first and second down but we were money on third down and fourth down. No one said it was great last year or will be great this year.  But Cam wasn't the reason it was good or bad.  It had to do with the rotating guards every week and problems on the right side.  Cam had little to do with it either way so if you have a point it is hard to figure out what it is.

I disagree, if it was money on 3rd and 4th down, then it was pretty much all on Cam.  Some of those were broken down pass plays but most were called to his number running a power play or wham plays.  You can add some Tolbert runs in there as well, but he would be the only back that came to mind that did work on 3rd or even 4th downs.  Deangelo had a few big runs sprinkled throughout the year that gave him the majority of his yards.  

 

I think we need to start throwing more on first down early in the year so when we do run on first down, we arent stuck at 2nd and 9 afterwards.

[panthers55]

i didnt ignore the stats at all.  We had less than 1,400 from our backfield and I simply stated that is pretty bad.  We certainly missed a healthy Stewart, which he didnt even look close to that last year.

So was it bad that Seattle and San Francisco had almost the same statistics as we did rushing the ball?  And there quarterbacks had almost the same amount of yards as Cam did??  Did they have a bad rushing seasons as well.  Funny that no one is saying that about them like you are about the Panthers with similar numbers.

[panthers55]

I disagree, if it was money on 3rd and 4th down, then it was pretty much all on Cam.  Some of those were broken down pass plays but most were called to his number running a power play or wham plays.  You can add some Tolbert runs in there as well, but he would be the only back that came to mind that did work on 3rd or even 4th downs.  Deangelo had a few big runs sprinkled throughout the year that gave him the majority of his yards.  

 

I think we need to start throwing more on first down early in the year so when we do run on first down, we arent stuck at 2nd and 9 afterwards.

This is why you needs stats.  Do you know how many times Cam ran it on third down or fourth down versus Tolbert?  Do you know how many times we ran it on those downs at all??  I do because I know the numbers in addition to watching the games.  Without facts all you have is speculation .

[Jeremy Igo]

 

Doesn't sound like you are arguing like Jeremy that stats are not useful

 

Huh?

 

Where did you get that idea.

 

Using only stats is not useful. They do play a role in the overall picture, but by themselves ... not so much.

[Peppers90 NC]

Here are some stats, we'll call them rushing for first downs:

 

Cam - 45

DW - 35

MT - 31

JS -7

 

That doesnt necessarily give who picked them up on 3rd or 4th downs, but it shows who our #1 guy is to get that first down.

[Jeremy Igo]

This is why you needs stats.  Do you know how many times Cam ran it on third down or fourth down versus Tolbert?  Do you know how many times we ran it on those downs at all??  I do because I know the numbers in addition to watching the games.  Without facts all you have is speculation .

 

Eye witness observation is speculation?

[Peppers90 NC]

This is why you needs stats.  Do you know how many times Cam ran it on third down or fourth down versus Tolbert?  Do you know how many times we ran it on those downs at all??  I do because I know the numbers in addition to watching the games.  Without facts all you have is speculation .

Well thats mighty fine of you, please list them.  I just listed how many first downs our four guys each picked up on the ground and of course Cam had 10 more than the next.

[Peppers90 NC]

So was it bad that Seattle and San Francisco had almost the same statistics as we did rushing the ball?  And there quarterbacks had almost the same amount of yards as Cam did??  Did they have a bad rushing seasons as well.  Funny that no one is saying that about them like you are about the Panthers with similar numbers.

Did or did not each of those team have 1,000 yard backs?  Both those teams top two rushers eclipsed 1,500 yards while our top 3 failed to reach 1,400.  While 10 yards a game I suppose doesnt seem like a ton, it does make a difference.

[panthers55]

True to an extent (for teams with these mobile QBs, that can also air the ball out), but ask any of the coaches would they prefer that the QB run less---due to offensive efficiency , as well as the toll it takes on a QB, not to mention risk of injury---and they will tell you that they absolutely want their guy to run less and pass more.  

 

Even still, the fact still remains that Cam is running more than any QB in the game (and unfortunately for his life many times).  Cam accounted for nearly 29 percent of our rushing yardage, where Kap and Wilson were near 24 and 25 percent, respectively.

 

Those differences in percentages may seem small on paper, but they loom larger on the field during the season.  

First of all Coaches want balance so they want to run when they need to and throw as well.  How many other quarterbacks are 6'5" and 240 lbs>  Cam is less likely to get hurt running than he is in the pocket where he can see what is coming.

 

Percentage of running yards does not measure whether he is running more than other quarterbacks because he could have 6 runs of 90 yards each which equates to 540 yards versus someone else who runs 120 times for the same 540 yards?  Who ran more??  Why not try rushing attempts which measure how often they ran.  Cam ran 111 times   Kaepernick ran 92 times.  Wilson ran 97 times.  The only variable not accounted for is if the QB is sacked behind the line it is not considered a rush attempt.  If it is past the line of scrimmage it counts as a rushing attempt.  So he is rushing more than those 2 but it has nothing to do with rushing percentages as a total of the whole.  If a team only rushes 10 times all season and the quarterback rushes 3 times then his percentage is 33%.  So that would make it more than Cam right??

 

That is the problem with stats, if you use them, you have to do so in context and meaningfully.

[panthers55]

Did or did not each of those team have 1,000 yard backs?  Both those teams top two rushers eclipsed 1,500 yards while our top 3 failed to reach 1,400.  While 10 yards a game I suppose doesnt seem like a ton, it does make a difference.

Again I am sure you have a point somewhere I just can't figure what it is...............................  Haivng a 1000 yard back versus 1 that gets 800 yards and another than gets 300 makes no difference.  And 10 yards a game doesn't make a difference in and of itself.  Now if that extra 10 yards accounted for 2 TDs in the redzone then it does matter.  But that is quality versus quantity which has been debated ad nauseum.

[bleys]

it's all misdirection, hell the media/league already thinks we don't have a receiving core, so let them all focus on the run.

 

I doubt their worried about the run game..  "4 horseman" sounds more dangerous than it really is...

[Peppers90 NC]

Again I am sure you have a point somewhere I just can't figure what it is...............................  Haivng a 1000 yard back versus 1 that gets 800 yards and another than gets 300 makes no difference.  And 10 yards a game doesn't make a difference in and of itself.  Now if that extra 10 yards accounted for 2 TDs in the redzone then it does matter.  But that is quality versus quantity which has been debated ad nauseum.

well like I said, our top three backs failed to reach 1,400 while each of their top two had more than 1,500.  Add their third back then the margin widens.  I'm not sure what your point is either and still waiting for you to post the 3rd and 4th down rush stats.  Without even looking, I know who our most efficient rusher was in those downs and I've already used stats on who led our team in 1st downs on the ground.

[panthers55]

Eye witness observation is speculation?

http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/eyewitnessmemory.html

 

 

http://www.cgu.edu/include/Expert%20Testimony.pdf

 

 

 

Yeah eyewitness observation and the subsequent retelling of it are highly inaccurate and often full of speculation and opinion based on biases and prejudices not the facts as they exist.

[panthers55]

well like I said, our top three backs failed to reach 1,400 while each of their top two had more than 1,500.  Add their third back then the margin widens.  I'm not sure what your point is either and still waiting for you to post the 3rd and 4th down rush stats.  Without even looking, I know who our most efficient rusher was in those downs and I've already used stats on who led our team in 1st downs on the ground.

You seem to have a lot more free time.  I only post between clients who might no show like now.  Go ahead and do it and then you can prove me wrong. 

 

Without looking you know the facts right?  Sounds like great huddle logic to me.