Stewart healthy & moving well. Rivera's Party Line a Red Herring.

[Peppers90 NC]

You seem to have a lot more free time.  I only post between clients who might no show like now.  Go ahead and do it and then you can prove me wrong. 

 

Without looking you know the facts right?  Sounds like great huddle logic to me.

bailing out of the debate sounds even worse than huddle logic to me.  i mean you said you had the stats, why not list them?  I watched every game last year, so watching what I am saying is factual, unless someone like yourself who cant back up his claim wants to say otherwise.  i know you have plenty of time, but you probably dont have these stats as you claimed you do.  Or you checked them to see you were wrong and cant own up to it.

[Jeremy Igo]

http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/eyewitnessmemory.html

 

 

http://www.cgu.edu/include/Expert%20Testimony.pdf

 

 

 

Yeah eyewitness observation and the subsequent retelling of it are highly inaccurate and often full of speculation and opinion based on biases and prejudices not the facts as they exist.

 

Oh, you didn't tell me you had a link! No fair.

[panthers55]

Huh?

 

Where did you get that idea.

 

Using only stats is not useful. They do play a role in the overall picture, but by themselves ... not so much.

The snarky tone of your response derailing stats as not important compared to observation was my first clue....

 

I am glad you clarified.

[Jeremy Igo]

I have yet begun to snark.

Sent from the Carolina Huddle App

[top dawg]

First of all Coaches want balance so they want to run when they need to and throw as well.  How many other quarterbacks are 6'5" and 240 lbs>  Cam is less likely to get hurt running than he is in the pocket where he can see what is coming.

 

Percentage of running yards does not measure whether he is running more than other quarterbacks because he could have 6 runs of 90 yards each which equates to 540 yards versus someone else who runs 120 times for the same 540 yards?  Who ran more??  Why not try rushing attempts which measure how often they ran.  Cam ran 111 times   Kaepernick ran 92 times.  Wilson ran 97 times.  The only variable not accounted for is if the QB is sacked behind the line it is not considered a rush attempt.  If it is past the line of scrimmage it counts as a rushing attempt.  So he is rushing more than those 2 but it has nothing to do with rushing percentages as a total of the whole.  If a team only rushes 10 times all season and the quarterback rushes 3 times then his percentage is 33%.  So that would make it more than Cam right??

 

That is the problem with stats, if you use them, you have to do so in context and meaningfully.

 

Stats as you should know, only tell part of the story, so I assume that's why you bought them up.  Just like Zod implied, the eye test, the situation and the impact has to take part in evaluation as well (for example: I responded to a guy who was saying that Cam was an average QB the other day just because he ranked 15th on NFL.com last season).

 

Anyway, of course most coaches desire a balanced attack, but they also want the running backs to do the lion's share of the pounding.  Cam running here and there as a result of the defense breaking down is one thing, but even a big QB can be hurt, particularly if he is running for his life.  Moreover, the more effective that your running backs can be, the less that your QB has to be relied upon to run the ball and subject himself to a greater probability of being injured.  

[Peppers90 NC]

Cam was his least effective on 1st down, only average 2 per carry.  He averaged 6.9 on 2nd down and 6.0 on 3rd and 4.5 on 4th(only 2 attempts).

 

Deangelo actually had was his best, although skewed by a few very nice runs, but averaged 4.3 and scored all 3 of his td's on first down, 4.0 on 2nd and 3.8 on third downs.  

 

Tolbert only averaged 1.8 yards on 4th down, 3.5 on 3rd, 3.8 on 2nd and 3.6 on 1st.  

 

Couldnt find who actually picked up first downs on 3rd down the most, but Cam was easily the most effective between the bunch but I know Panthers55 is sitting on that info so we'll wait to see the actual numbers there.

[panthers55]

Stats as you should know, only tell part of the story, so I assume that's why you bought them up.  Just like Zod implied, the eye test, the situation and the impact has to take part in evaluation as well (for example: I responded to a guy who was saying that Cam was an average QB the other day just because he ranked 15th on NFL.com last season).

 

Anyway, of course most coaches desire a balanced attack, but they also want the running backs to do the lion's share of the pounding.  Cam running here and there as a result of the defense breaking down is one thing, but even a big QB can be hurt, particularly if he is running for his life.  Moreover, the more effective that your running backs can be, the less that your QB has to be relied upon to run the ball and subject himself to a greater probability of being injured.  

Your argument with that other guy only indicates that you can use stats to prove what you want to prove and can be used selectively.  It doesn't prove stats aren't important and I promise you when GMs are negotiating contracts, numbers and stats outweigh the old eyeball everytime.  There are stats which account for context and impact which is what you can use when someone uses a largely useless stat.

 

Of course teams want their backs to run the ball most of the time.  Gettleman said that on more than one occasion.  But that was largely planned runs not scrambles.  Truth is that many times Cam scrambles because he can and holds onto the ball trying to make a big play.  He is getting smarter about throwing it away or dumping it to the back and that is why his completion percentage goes up while his yards per attempt and total yards goes down.  The number of wins went up as well.

[updownsigma]

Gonna guess the tl;dr argument in this thread from what I saw while scrolling down to post:

-Don't rely on personal observations because of cognitive bias

-Don't rely on stats because sample size in football sucks when you actually attempt to narrow things down to relevant situations

Am I close?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

[Peppers90 NC]

Gonna guess the tl;dr argument in this thread from what I saw while scrolling down to post:

-Don't rely on personal observations because of cognitive bias

-Don't rely on stats because sample size in football sucks when you actually attempt to narrow things down to relevant situations

Am I close?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using CarolinaHuddle mobile app

Pretty much, but I actually backed up personal observations with real stats.  We have other guys saying that they have certain stats but have yet to post them, basically bowing out of the debate.

 

With every stat I have listed, one thing is for certain:  Cam is our best and most efficient runner and it isn't really even close.

[Jeremy Igo]

Here are some stats, we'll call them rushing for first downs:

 

Cam - 45

DW - 35

MT - 31

JS -7

 

That doesnt necessarily give who picked them up on 3rd or 4th downs, but it shows who our #1 guy is to get that first down.

 

Wait, so Cam was the leader in first down runs by a wide margin?

 

Its almost as if this data supports what my eyes saw and the conclusions I drew.  Weird.

[Jeremy Igo]

Boston.com gets it...

 

 

Patriots Take 2: Three Cam Newton scrambles that changed the game

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/goingdeep/2013/11/patriots_take_2_three_game_cha.html

 

 

[Peppers90 NC]

Wait, so Cam was the leader in first down runs by a wide margin?

 

Its almost as if this data supports what my eyes saw and the conclusions I drew.  Weird.

 

But wait, there's more:

 

Cam was his least effective on 1st down, only average 2 per carry.  He averaged 6.9 on 2nd down and 6.0 on 3rd and 4.5 on 4th(only 2 attempts).

 

Deangelo actually had was his best, although skewed by a few very nice runs, but averaged 4.3 and scored all 3 of his td's on first down, 4.0 on 2nd and 3.8 on third downs.  

 

Tolbert only averaged 1.8 yards on 4th down, 3.5 on 3rd, 3.8 on 2nd and 3.6 on 1st.  

 

Couldnt find who actually picked up first downs on 3rd down the most, but Cam was easily the most effective between the bunch but I know Panthers55 is sitting on that info so we'll wait to see the actual numbers there.

 I do find it weird that someone is actually arguing what pretty much everyone here felt was obvious:  which was outside a couple games last year, the run game struggled mightily.  With those numbers, it is clear who was able to get the first downs on 3rd and more than one or two yards.

[Peppers90 NC]

Boston.com gets it...

 

 

Patriots Take 2: Three Cam Newton scrambles that changed the game

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/goingdeep/2013/11/patriots_take_2_three_game_cha.html

wow, only 41 yards from our backs in that win and against a team that struggled stopping the run in games leading up to that one.  

[Jeremy Igo]

When I go to a movie, I get a pretty strong overall impression if it was good or bad.

 

 

Others may break down the script, acting, cinematography, character archs, etc. and somehow prove a piece of poo movie is something other than a piece of poo.

 

 

Me, I just got by the smell. And the Panthers running game didn't smell like roses.