Michael Vick on running quarterbacks: I started it all

[micnificent28]

I would totally disagree with this. just as an athlete I think you have to go to Jim Brown or Bo Jackson right off the top so "never seen" is ridiculous.There have been many great athletes in the NFL.

You just described 2 atheletes who are rare but similar. You can't compare vick to anyone else because no other qb has come with 4.2 speed and one of the strongest arms in the league. For those to reasons its hard to find a comparision. His agility and Houdini like escapes in the pocket were second to none. And I'm only comparing vick to other quaterbacks. If we just wanted fast guys I would say deon and so on. Keep it to the qb position.

[FootballMaestro]

You just described 2 atheletes who are rare but similar. You can't compare vick to anyone else because no other qb has come with 4.2 speed and one of the strongest arms in the league. For those to reasons its hard to find a comparision. His agility and Houdini like escapes in the pocket were second to none. And I'm only comparing vick to other quaterbacks. If we just wanted fast guys I would say deon and so on. Keep it to the qb position.

 

Yeah, but Vick was short, and lacked proper pocket presence. So my take is "so what". Not saying he wasn't any good. He was. 

 

RG3 closely resembles Vick in your criteria. 

 

More importantly, what is speed, if you keep running straight into defenders and getting hurt (ala Vick and RG3). And what is a strong arm, if you're not tall enough to see over defenders, and/or smart enough to slide into lanes if you're not, as well as having the presence to know when to throw, stick in there, and run??

 

They're tons of NFL players who get drafted every year, who's measurables are off the charts, but they rarely make teams or an impact (which is why we don't hear or talk about them), cause they lack certain skills, or intangibles, or flat out can't play. 

 

Vick's great arm and speed, were as incomplete as his lack of height, pocket presence, and ability to hang in there, and avoid getting hit. 

[micnificent28]

Yeah, but Vick was short, and lacked proper pocket presence. So my take is "so what". Not saying he wasn't any good. He was.

RG3 closely resembles Vick in your criteria.

More importantly, what is speed, if you keep running straight into defenders and getting hurt (ala Vick and RG3). And what is a strong arm, if you're not tall enough to see over defenders, and/or smart enough to slide into lanes if you're not, as well as having the presence to know when to throw, stick in there, and run??

They're tons of NFL players who get drafted every year, who's measurables are off the charts, but they rarely make teams or an impact (which is why we don't hear or talk about them), cause they lack certain skills, or intangibles, or flat out can't play.

Vick's great arm and speed, were as incomplete as his lack of height, pocket presence, and ability to hang in there, and avoid getting hit.

I agree rg3 is the next closest. But I dont think hes is nearly as agile and as adept at making people miss. I don't think height is a big factor in this because of the way he plays the position m plenty of short guys brees and currently wilson are finding success. But to say vick hasn't had success would be short sighted.

I think the 2 years he lost greatly hurt what he could have been and the lack of weapons he had while in atlanta. Saying the nfls all-time leading rusher at qb and numerous playoff appearances wasn't anything but a runner or fast guy is short sightef.

[FootballMaestro]

I agree rg3 is the next closest. But I dont think hes is nearly as agile and as adept at making people miss. I don't think height is a big factor in this because of the way he plays the position m plenty of short guys brees and currently wilson are finding success. But to say vick hasn't had success would be short sighted.

I think the 2 years he lost greatly hurt what he could have been and the lack of weapons he had while in atlanta. Saying the nfls all-time leading rusher at qb and numerous playoff appearances wasn't anything but a runner or fast guy is short sightef.

 

Yeah, Vick could very well be more agile than RG3, however they both seemed to get hurt frequently. 

 

Height matters, cause Vick was never a great pocket passer (despite his arm strength). So I'm assuming he couldn't always see what was happening on the field. It's either that we can call him dumb. 

 

And I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player. He was! And who knows what he could have grown into, if it wasn't for the "you know what" situation.

 

However, [what I'm saying is], the fantastic athleticism you're talking about, didn't translate him to being that all time fantastic type of a player. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand. Plus he's 6 feet. I think someone Cam's size, strength and speed (for example) makes a QB much more dangerous than a Vick, for a multiplicity of reasons, I'm too busy to write now. Lol

 

Get me?

[micnificent28]

Yeah, Vick could very well be more agile than RG3, however they both seemed to get hurt frequently. 

 

Height matters, cause Vick was never a great pocket passer (despite his arm strength). So I'm assuming he couldn't always see what was happening on the field. It's either that we can call him dumb. 

 

And I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player. He was! And who knows what he could have grown into, if it wasn't for the "you know what" situation.

 

However, [what I'm saying is], the fantastic athleticism you're talking about, didn't translate him to being that all time fantastic type of a player. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand. Plus he's 6 feet. I think someone Cam's size, strength and speed (for example) makes a QB much more dangerous than a Vick, for a multiplicity of reasons, I'm too busy to write now. Lol

 

Get me?

 

I got you. But the arguement wasn't was he a all time great player,But as the topic says a player who revolutionized the position and opened up the doors for the cams kaps and rg3s and so on. Which i feel have some merit. He's had some good passing seasons like the one when he first came back to the nfl for the eagles. I think his ability as a passer is slightly below cam's but in the same region somewhat. I think he is more accurate than cam but not nearly as good a making the right calls and when to let it rip. 

 

My whole point was you can't deny the talent and unlimited upside he had coming into the league. and as someone said the guy was good enuff to land two 100 million dollar contracts. one after the whole situation..that says a lot about him as a player and how people respected his on the field talent.

[FootballMaestro]

I got you. But the arguement wasn't was he a all time great player,But as the topic says a player who revolutionized the position and opened up the doors for the cams kaps and rg3s and so on. Which i feel have some merit. He's had some good passing seasons like the one when he first came back to the nfl for the eagles. I think his ability as a passer is slightly below cam's but in the same region somewhat. I think he is more accurate than cam but not nearly as good a making the right calls and when to let it rip. 

 

My whole point was you can't deny the talent and unlimited upside he had coming into the league. and as someone said the guy was good enuff to land two 100 million dollar contracts. one after the whole situation..that says a lot about him as a player and how people respected his on the field talent.

 

I don't think Vick's passing ability is "slightly below Cam's", and "he's more accurate". Not at all. 

 

You place Vick on Cam's 2011 and 2012 Panther team, and he would have been carted off the field. I'm not even sure if the team would have been as competitive as those Panther teams were with the Vick we've seen most of most of his career either. 

 

I don't think Vick makes the decisions, progressions and throws Cam does either. So therefore is not as accurate. Of course, after Vick was in the league for several seasons, and on some good teams, he was going to be better. But Cam was a better passer from the start. And his first few years as a pocket QB have been better than most of Vicks, minus a couple of career years for Vick. I think you sleep on Cam's accuracy, and don't give him enough credit. So, when comparing Vick's pocket presences and passing to Cam's their first 3 seasons (and even more for Vick), it's no comparison when you really look at it. I disagree strongly on that one. Others may chime in as well. 

 

I don't think Vick "Revolutionized" anything. Randall Cunningham, was a much better and productive dual threat QB. Did you watch him play? Doesn't matter he didn't run as fast as Vick in the 40. He was just flat out better. We have to be able separate modern day ESPN hype of a player ("Oh my god look at his 40YD time), feeding the ratings beast, from the reality of what they did and impact on the field.

 

I know I didn't mention the Tarekenton's, Bobby Rodgers, Steve Youngs, John Elway's, Kordell Stewart's, etc. Cunningham, just stands out to me as a true Nuclear Type Dual Threat QB (young played with great players and coaches). 

 

$100 million contracts mean nothing in the NFL, as most are littered with performance incentives, multiple clauses, and the fact that they are not guaranteed. They can cut you, or cancel it at any time (which happed to Vick 2x, so he never saw close to $100 mil in either contract, as it would have been if it was guaranteed). Just ask Kaep about that (and the people who believed he had gotten such a large contract when they initially read the headline). 

 

You appear to be a fans and like him. Nothing wrong with that. But once again, we need to separate the myths from reality.  Randall Cunningham was much better. We just didn't have the proliferation of the Internet, media, etc., feeding the insatiable hype beast as we do today. 

 

Plus, we can argue, guys like Cunningham made it easier to accept the likes of Vick (as Vick did for Cam, RG3etc.). Cause when Cunningham was playing, many media and so called experts almost didn't know how to assess Cunningham's skill set. It was as if they couldn't understand how a QB could excel so well at both throwing and running with the football. But you couldn't deny him either, during his heyday. Cunnigham was a weapon out there. So by the time Vick came along, he could get the hype he did, cause someone/something had already preceded him (the irony is: Vick was probably more in the vein of Kordell Stewart. However, Stewart didn't last long, and less like Randall Cunningham).  Maybe I'm wrong or misguided on my entire premise on Vick? However, I don't think so; though it's only my opinion.  

[heel31ok]

You just described 2 atheletes who are rare but similar. You can't compare vick to anyone else because no other qb has come with 4.2 speed and one of the strongest arms in the league. For those to reasons its hard to find a comparision. His agility and Houdini like escapes in the pocket were second to none. And I'm only comparing vick to other quaterbacks. If we just wanted fast guys I would say deon and so on. Keep it to the qb position.

you said athlete and there have been just as good athletes in the NFL over many years. obviously from a QB standpoint Steve Young is head and shoulders above Vick who could run and pass. Vick is a one trick pony , a flash in the pan who's time has passed.

[Pox 08]

So not true.

 

Yes..  The Falcons' Vick was known for staying in the pocket and going through his progressions.   No matter how much you want to argue it,  the Falcons' Vick "was" known as a one read and run qb,   he had a big arm,  but his accuracy was limited during those years..

 

 

He improved a little with the Eagles,  it took some time away from the game and an entirely new team but he developed into a better passing qb than he had been with the Falcons.  Philly Vick started going through progressions, and not getting antsy and eager to run at the fight sign of trouble. 

 

Jets Vick is a back-up because he had trouble reading defenses and continues to be injury prone and Foles took his spot once he went down for the final time as an Eagle.

[Mr. Scot]

Only fans of his generation who aren't educated about the history of the league would think he has a point. What Randall Cunningham was doing even in my generation was just as unfathomable and HE wasn't even the first to utilize that style. I'm sure every generation had a player like Vick in terms of being mostly athleticism and improvisation.

 

Pretty much.

 

Vick saying he was the first running quarterback has about as much validity as Patrick Stewart saying he started the Star Trek phenomenon.

 

And let's be clear on one thing: Vick is not a dual threat QB and never was.  He was a gifted runner but a mediocre passer at best.  Yes, he could throw the ball really far and hard but football is about throwing to a spot, and Vick was lousy at that. 

 

The only guy he could ever connect with on any consistent basis was Alge Crumpler.  Heck, Falcon fans were labeling Roddy White as a bust until he got a QB that could actually get him the ball.

 

[micnificent28]

you said athlete and there have been just as good athletes in the NFL over many years. obviously from a QB standpoint Steve Young is head and shoulders above Vick who could run and pass. Vick is a one trick pony , a flash in the pan who's time has passed.

 

I'm sorry but i can not agree with anything you have said. Vince young is not better than vick at anything and is the reason he is out of the league and vick is still playing.

[micnificent28]

I Think most of this board underrates vick as a passer. He only accounted for more ints than touchdowns once and that was his rookie season. saying players like vince young were better is crazy to me. The early falcon days weren't just over flowing with talent. And to the comment that alge crumpler was the only one he could connect with and made him look good,what happen to crumpler without vick? Roddy was very young when vick was there is it not possible that white got better later into his career? There is a reason he is the nfl's all time leading rusher at qb and the only qb to ever rush for a 1000 yards. Let's not forget he played in more of a running back driven era where offenses relied on runningbacks much more heavily than they do now and the pistol option which is all the rave now wasn't around. Was he the best quarterback ever? hell no but was he a franchise qb minus the situation? Yes. I think Blank still wanted vick and would have kept him if not for the Huge about of pressure to cast him off after his release from prison. Vick has been to the playoff his fair share of times and you can't get that done being as bad as half of you are pointing him out to be. 

 

His greatest short comings will always be not being able to stay healthy and missing those two season in his prime. I 100% believe without vick you wouldn't see the dual threat sensations we have today. Everyone was looking for a player that could do something similar to what vick could do. And I will still point out that there still hasn't been a quarterback that can match his physical gifts to this day. Not saying he could pick you apart with his arm but he was more than good enuff to take over a game and lead you to the playoffs. The falcons vick era teams were awful and anyone telling you anything different would be lying to you. You see how that team looked when vick went to jail and landed them matty ice. I have always been a die hard panthers fan but i grew to develop a healthy respect for micheal vick and loved to watch him preform.

[Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)]

Cunningham, McNair, Young, Culpepper, Tarkenton, McNabb?

Not to mention back before the merger, many QBs were basically runningbacks too.

[Seal (SmittyIsOurSavior)]

I'm sorry but i can not agree with anything you have said. Vince young is not better than vick at anything and is the reason he is out of the league and vick is still playing.

Steve Young =/= Vince Young.

Steve Young is a top 5 QB all-time probably... Definitely leagues better than Vick.

[Disinfranchised]

Like to put some dogs on vick and see how fast he really is.