Ozzie Newsome and John Schneider

[L-TownCat]

Seattle has an oline problem as well as questions in the backfield.  Can Rawles take a season of punishment like Lynch used to?  Can Russ and Graham get on the same page?  Is Baldwin a true #1?  

Plenty of questions around a Super bowl favorite.

[CPantherKing]

6 hours ago, ShutDwn said:

You brought a question of a cautionary tale but didn't give any examples...

 

the Seahawks operate nothing like Gettleman. Look at the trades they made. Lynch, Harvin, Graham. They've been shoppers in free agency too signing Avril and Flynn. 

 

The most similar example to Gettleman is the Patriots way.  

Belichick is not an example of Gettleman. Belichick spends money on key free agents to solidify a team for the SB championship. Belichick also trades down in the draft to accumulate 10+ draft picks per season to fill out his roster. He avoids undrafted free agents and used up vets in their 30s. He keeps the drafted players he likes as the core into their 30s. You will not see him start undrafted rookies, and most players sit and wait for a couple seasons before they begin to see a good percentage of snaps in a game. He also extends contracts to the players he has drafted. Gettleman does none of this. Gettleman is the exact opposite of Belichick as a GM.

6 hours ago, UpstatePanther said:

Fair enough. Truthfully, I brought this up more as education for myself than anything. I had just heard rumors about Seattle, and even if they weren't legit, the question of how Gettleman avoids common GM pitfalls still applies. I know he drafts well and doesn't overpay players. But you'd think all GM's would know to do that... I suppose I was wondering more what sets him apart from even the Ozzie Newsomes, John Schneiders, and Bill Bellicheks of the league.

The Seahawks and Ravens position themselves to win a SB with a young core that is anchored with veteran free agent talent that they gladly pay for to get the Lombardi Trophy. Then after winning the SB they build on that young core to create longevity for a possible dynasty with the objective of consistently getting to the playoffs. Those teams will trade or sign big money free agents to get that first SB championship to get the ball rolling. They will also decide a year ahead of time on what drafted players to keep following their rookie contract. If a young player is not in the plans for the future, they leverage their value in a trade. Those teams would have traded KK if they could not get a deal done before the following off season, and they would never use the franchise tag on a player unless they planned on keeping him long term.

Gettleman wants to do the exact opposite and build longevity without renting or trading for a game breaker to get that SB championship. Although this formula has historically failed, Gettleman is a strong believer that winning the division will lead to an eventual SB championship.

[Bozarden]

57 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Belichick is not an example of Gettleman. Belichick spends money on key free agents to solidify a team for the SB championship. Belichick also trades down in the draft to accumulate 10+ draft picks per season to fill out his roster. He avoids undrafted free agents and used up vets in their 30s. He keeps the drafted players he likes as the core into their 30s. You will not see him start undrafted rookies, and most players sit and wait for a couple seasons before they begin to see a good percentage of snaps in a game. He also extends contracts to the players he has drafted. Gettleman does none of this. Gettleman is the exact opposite of Belichick as a GM.

The Seahawks and Ravens position themselves to win a SB with a young core that is anchored with veteran free agent talent that they gladly pay for to get the Lombardi Trophy. Then after winning the SB they build on that young core to create longevity for a possible dynasty with the objective of consistently getting to the playoffs. Those teams will trade or sign big money free agents to get that first SB championship to get the ball rolling. They will also decide a year ahead of time on what drafted players to keep following their rookie contract. If a young player is not in the plans for the future, they leverage their value in a trade. Those teams would have traded KK if they could not get a deal done before the following off season, and they would never use the franchise tag on a player unless they planned on keeping him long term.

Gettleman wants to do the exact opposite and build longevity without renting or trading for a game breaker to get that SB championship. Although this formula has historically failed, Gettleman is a strong believer that winning the division will lead to an eventual SB championship.

Malcolm Butler was literally an UDFA who won the Superbowl for Bill Belichick and the Pats. You sound more and more stupid for every the sky is falling post you make. 

[ctrcat]

Schneider, by luck or skill, pulled the lever and hit the jackpot in the 2010-2012 drafts.  Since then, he's literally been an awful GM.  He just got a raise, but it's for what he did 2010-2012.

Among his lowlights since

trading for Harvin, trading for Graham, getting cute in the draft by trading back instead of taking players that would have been available at positions of need and helped (Bitonio, Butler).  Not having a clue about how to put together an OL (drafting Britt over Turner), not taking advantage of the 5th year option even once in the new CBA, only having one 1st rounder on the roster under the new CBA (Ifedi), paying a premium for too many stars while inevitably being forced to bottom feed on the rest of the 53 man roster in future years, setting an awful precedent in Lynch and Chancellor's holdouts which inevitably irked Bennett and others, etc.

[CPantherKing]

34 minutes ago, Bozarden said:

Malcolm Butler was literally an UDFA who won the Superbowl for Bill Belichick and the Pats. You sound more and more stupid for every the sky is falling post you make. 

Butler was literally a bench player as a rookie who was inactive for several games and did not start in the SB. He was used for a very small percentage of plays in 2014, and he was only in on that play due to an injury to the starter. The Seahawks targeted Butler, and he made one great play. That proves my point. Not sure how you think a rookie UDFA who has been inactive throughout the season and does not start is a major contributing factor to a team.

[CPantherKing]

34 minutes ago, ctrcat said:

Schneider, by luck or skill, pulled the lever and hit the jackpot in the 2010-2012 drafts.  Since then, he's literally been an awful GM.  He just got a raise, but it's for what he did 2010-2012.

Among his lowlights

trading for Harvin, trading for Graham, getting cute in the draft by trading back instead of taking players that would have been available at positions of need and helped (Bitonio, Butler).  Not having a clue about how to put together an OL (drafting Britt over Turner), not taking advantage of the 5th year option even once in the new CBA, only having one 1st rounder on the roster under the new CBA (Ifedi), paying a premium for too many stars while inevitably being forced to bottom feed on the rest of the 53 man roster in future years, setting an awful precident in Lynch and Chancellor's holdouts which inevitably irked Bennett and others, etc.

And they are still the biggest threat to the Panthers and the NFC Championship crown. If that is what he produces when he sucks, then I hate to see what Schneider does when he performs at a higher level.

[ctrcat]

4 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

And they are still the biggest threat to the Panthers and the NFC Championship crown. If that is what he produces when he sucks, then I hate to see what Schneider does when he performs at a higher level.

Because what he did in 2010-2012 still counts, and it was a bang up job.  But even this year he lost Okung and Irvin from that group.  They peaked, naturally, in 2013, also getting the numerous lucky breaks often needed along the way.  But they will continue to fade.  You can't go half a decade without a first round pick (and the ONE they do have was the LAST pick of the round) in the salary cap era and keep on trucking.  Impossible.

[ctrcat]

^throw in some major 2nd round busts in Richardson and Michael as well.

[Zithers]

the ravens dropped off because they hired marc trestman, a god awful OC. and they were wrecked by injuries last season. and joe flacco hasnt lived up to his 2012 postseason. i still think theyre a wildcard team and maybe division winner if the bengals falter/steelers can't handle all of their suspensions.

the seahawks are still a dominant top five team. but ignoring the OLine is gonna hurt them at some point.

[ctrcat]

Just now, Zithers said:

the ravens dropped off because they hired marc trestman, a god awful OC. and they were wrecked by injuries last season. and joe flacco hasnt lived up to his 2012 postseason. i still think theyre a wildcard team and maybe division winner if the bengals falter/steelers can't handle all of their suspensions.

the seahawks are still a dominant top five team. but ignoring the OLine is gonna hurt them at some point.

They tried, spending a 1st on Okung, Carpenter, and now Ifedi.  But they couldn't hold on to the first two and who knows with Ifedi.  Britt over Turner is Exhibit A of why GMan is the Godfather and Schneider best enjoy the fruits of his labor before GMan joined the Panthers.

[Zithers]

1 minute ago, ctrcat said:

They tried, spending a 1st on Okung, Carpenter, and now Ifedi.  But they couldn't hold on to the first two and who knows with Ifedi.  Britt over Turner is Exhibit A of why GMan is the Godfather and Schneider best enjoy the fruits of his labor before GMan joined the Panthers.

okung was pretty good but he just got hurt a lot and they finally decided to cut their losses with him... not a bust, talent-wise, by any means. and one pick is not exhibit a of anything. gettleman drafted kugbila over who knows who many players from that draft. the seahawks almost beat us twice last year and have had our number in the past. we will have another close game with them this year. and they had a good draft last season with frank clark being a potential starting DL and tyler lockett outplaying *gasp* devin funchess, in addition to being the best return man in the league.

[ctrcat]

5 minutes ago, Zithers said:

okung was pretty good but he just got hurt a lot and they finally decided to cut their losses with him... not a bust, talent-wise, by any means. and one pick is not exhibit a of anything. gettleman drafted kugbila over who knows who many players from that draft. the seahawks almost beat us twice last year and have had our number in the past. we will have another close game with them this year. and they had a good draft last season with frank clark being a potential starting DL and tyler lockett outplaying *gasp* devin funchess, in addition to being the best return man in the league.

All teams, even the 49ers and Browns, have good young players they're excited about.  Clark has lost a ton of weight and looked utterly useless yesterday.  The draft of Shaq (w/5th year option), Funchess, Williams, Mayo, and CAP, absolutely crushes that draft of theirs, with less picks.

[ctrcat]

^by the way, another mistake was taking Clark as early as they did.  Obviously they were willing to take him, but he could have been had on Day 3 with his red flags.

[pantherfan49]

Draft well and it all takes care of itself.