Mike n Mike talk team building

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

I'm not cherry picking anything. I asked you which year in eleven was worse under Hurney than in Gettleman's four years. You then asserted that the 2004 line was worse, but I disagreed stating the 2016 line was only comparable. Both teams having suffered injuries. I then stated the 2014 was an atrocity that was incomparable to any offensive line under Marty Hurney.

Let me ask you another question. Do you think Dave Gettleman will select an offensive lineman with a high pick in this years draft? If not then that makes five years without one selected. If you assume Gettleman will be here the same number of years as Hurney, then we're already almost halfway through his tenure without taking an offensive lineman with a high pick.

See above (Hub's post).

Continuing with this notion that only high picks equal quality or priority isn't making your argument any stronger.

As to this picking a lineman high this draft, dear lord I hope not. The OL crop in this draft is terrible.

Maybe it's make you feel better if he spent a first round pick on a crappy lineman. Me? I cringe at the thought.

Second rounder on Ryan Ramczyk maybe (depending on his medical evaluation) but first round? Oh hell no.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Krovvy said:

I'm not saying that the lines under Hurney were flawless, but I am saying they were better, and that they were better because Hurney put quite a bit of resources into it.

And what you're saying is flat out wrong.

[Kakarot]

13 minutes ago, iamhubby1 said:

 

See, to me this is the main problem right now. Fans seem to forget that, outside of a few good years, we were always trying to fix our Oline when Hurngog was here. All while letting good lineman get away.

 

Why is it so hard for folks to acknowledge that injuries played a large role in how our line played this year?

 

Outside the SuperB owl our line played really well in 15. Why is it such a travesty that they may have thought, "Man, if that line plays as well, or better, we are good to go? Because the line fell apart, fans are back to "We never..."

 

Oher, Norwell, Kalil, Turner, and Williams can be a really good line. Remmers, Scott, Gradkowski, and Larsen can be pretty good back-ups. Injuries, not coaching, or the FO was what kept that group from playing together.

 

Lastly. Gman has never had money. Let's see what he does with it before we pronounce him a bust.

Not really trying to jump in this conversation, but I kind of wanted to address the bold. Wasn't our line in max protection a good majority of the season 2015? If that's the case, isn't that suggesting our line wasn't as great as the numbers suggested? Isn't that admitting that we knew the line needed some help, so we brought in extra men to help with protection? So, technically we knew the line wasn't that good.

Great conversation going on in here, by the way.

[Krovvy]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

See above (Hub's post).

As to this picking a lineman high this draft, dear lord I hope not. The OL crop in this draft is terrible.

Maybe it's make you feel better if he spent a first round pick on a crappy lineman. Me? I cringe at the thought.

Second rounder on Ryan Ramczyk maybe (depending on his medical evaluation) but first round? Oh hell no.

I've already replied to it, and it doesn't invalidate anything I've said.

Though it would make me feel better if Dave went into this season serious about protecting the face of the Panthers. If it means trading a few picks for a player, or trading back to grab multiple players, I'm all for it. It's not unreasonable to hope the Panthers will invest in players that can adequately protect Cam Newton, and help the running game.

Going into this next season without finding a serviceable backup to Micheal Oher would make me cringe.

[Krovvy]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And what you're saying is flat out wrong.

Too bad you can't argue otherwise.

[arbnranger]

1 hour ago, grimesgoat said:

Destroyed?

Did you watch the superb owl?  We turned the ball over 4 times, 1 for a TD and 1 ended up inside the 10 for another TD (thanks to a no-call on a clearly batted ball).  We gave up the longest punt return in SB history resulting in 3 more points.  We committed 12 penalties for 102 yards compared to Denver's 51 yds.  We had the ball 33 minutes and outgained them 315 to 194.  We dropped pass after pass, yet we were still only down 6 pts with the ball and 4 minutes to go.  Bottom line - we did far more damage to ourselves than the Denver defense did to us and we were far from "destroyed". 

Then the next year we were "destroyed" again when we missed a FG for the win as time expired.

Seriously - get some perspective.  Everyone wants a scapegoat, but sometimes there just isn't one.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, Krovvy said:

Too bad you can't argue otherwise.

Already have, and pointed out exactly where the fallacies are.

I seriously doubt you were around during the Hurney years. Nice try attempting to sound like you were.

[Krovvy]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Already have, and pointed out exactly where the fallacies are.

I seriously doubt you were around during the Hurney years. Nice try attempting to sound like you were.

No you haven't, you've done quite the opposite. That's why you're to this point now of "nu uh, nu uh".

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Krovvy said:

No you haven't, you've done quite the opposite. That's why you're to this point now of "nu uh, nu uh".

Again, nice try, and thanks for proving I was right about you not being here while Hurney was in charge.

You're basically talking about stuff you have no familiarity with. It gives a chuckle to those of us who were here through that whole mess.

No credibility at all.

 

[Krovvy]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Again, nice try, and thanks for proving I was right about you not being here while Hurney was in charge.

You're basically talking about stuff you have no familiarity with. It gives a chuckle to those of us who were here through that whole mess.

No credibility at all.

 

Now you've just devolved into trying to attack me instead of my argument. This is just sad.

[Mr. Scot]

 

Just now, Krovvy said:

Now you've just devolved into trying to attack me instead of my argument. This is just sad.

Just now, Krovvy said:

Now you've just devolved into trying to attack me instead of my argument. This is just sad.

Your argument has already been dispensed with.

Now your credibility to talk on the subject is out too.

Nice try, kid.

[Krovvy]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

Your argument has already been dispensed with.

Now your credibility to talk on the subject is out too.

Nice try, kid.

Fine, I'll play your game Mr. Football Historian. I've been a Panther fan my entire life, and I've followed and read many Panther boards. You say I have no familiarity with this? Am I the one that forgot Jeff Otah cost the Panthers two first round picks, a second, and a fourth while arguing that Marty Hurney didn't invest in offensive line as much as Gettleman?

You're not arguing anything at this point. You're calling me a kid now? Do you understand how hypocritical you sound?

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Krovvy said:

Fine, I'll play your game Mr. Football Historian. I've been a Panther fan my entire life, and I've followed and read many Panther boards. You say I have no familiarity with this? Am I the one that forgot Jeff Otah cost the Panthers two first round picks, a second, and a fourth while arguing that Marty Hurney didn't invest in offensive line as much as Gettleman?

You're not arguing anything at this point. You're calling me a kid now? Do you understand how hypocritical you sound?

All your life is what, 15 years?

You've acknowledged that you weren't around for the Hurney years. And no, looking up stuff with Google doesn't put you in the same boat as those of us who lived through it all year by year.

I'm sure you could write up a nice report on World War II as well if you did a little research. But I'm afraid that doesn't make you an equal authority with people who were there.

So you can sit here all you want and talk about how you do so know what you're talking about, but it ain't happenin, kid.

Best thing you can do now is watch and learn.

[Krovvy]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

All your life is what, 15 years?

You've acknowledged that you weren't around for the Hurney years. And no, looking up stuff with Google doesn't put you in the same boat as those of us who lived through it all year by year.

I'm sure you could write up a nice report on World War II as well if you did a little research. But I'm afraid that doesn't make you an equal authority with people who were there.

So you can sit here all you want and talk about how you do so know what you're talking about, but it ain't happenin, kid.

Best thing you can do now is watch and learn.

I think you misunderstand. I never even acknowledge your ad-hominem attack, or at least I tried.

Since it's all you have left though I will point out that your knowledge as a "Football Historian" has been lacking in this thread. Missing quite a few key instances of history such as how much resources Marty Hurney spent on drafting offensive lineman, as well as how much cap room the Panther's had in 2014.

Keep calling me a kid, I don't mind. Just don't get all red faced next time someone points out your fallacies, while showing you how inadequate your football knowledge is.