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Why do casual football fans blame Cam instead of Ron for this mess?

Sean Payton's Vicodin

By Sean Payton's Vicodin,
in Carolina Panthers

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
Just now, top dawg said:

Cute.

"Good" can easily turn into "great" with the proper personnel and staff. Some of the "great" ones were horrible when they first started, but all the great ones have been "good" at some point along the way. 

I don't know of many people that thought that Fox would ever be great. 

Well then, maybe Jeff Fisher deserved more opportunities. I mean if somebody gave him a few more years, perhaps he would have become great.

"Good" can turn into great. It can also turn into average or mediocre. And in the case of guys like I've mentioned above, it can forever remain at the level of "good, but not good enough".

Rivera has been in place for eight years. He is what he is. How many more years of Newton and Kuechly's playing prime are you willing to bet on the hope that Rivera suddenly becomes a championship level coach?

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Darvinsun Collaborator

Darvinsun

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Well Mr. Scott I tend to agree with your view points most of the time and I agree with your views here as well. Where is the coaching that stands out from Ron. Where were the play calls that negated the pass rush? Putting Tolbert and Fozzy, Dickson who had sucked all yr in blocking was not an answer. If he watched any of our films he would have known that we were going to be in trouble. Especially Atl game. Nope the only thing he said We are going to do what we do..buying into the media that his way was unstoppable when on film it had already been revealed. Denver defense was much better than Atl . Just like he felled to watch the Steelers tape. It revealed the weakness of the team on both sides of the ball. What SB winning coach throws away film? That act right there tells it all not to mention giving days off when they played like they were already on vacation. Rivera and Shula felled the team as well as players execution. Tolbert should not even been on the team. His play had started declining previous yr film study would have told them this.

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

Posted
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8 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Well then, maybe Jeff Fisher deserved more opportunities. I mean if somebody gave him a few more years, perhaps he would have become great.

"Good" can turn into great. It can also turn into average or mediocre. And in the case of guys like I've mentioned above, it can forever remain at the level of "good, but not good enough".

Rivera has been in place for eight years. He is what he is. How many more years of Newton and Kuechly's playing prime are you willing to bet on the hope that Rivera suddenly becomes a championship level coach?

And with your attitude, the team with all that Super Bowl hardware likely wouldn't have it.

And, for the record (again), if Tepper decides to fire Rivera, I'm all for it. But, if he decides to keep Rivera, I'm all for it as well. I can see the positives and negatives of either decision. Moreover, also for the record, I am not in favor of ditching Rivera because I don't think he can ever win a championship, I can see ditching him because sometimes a change and new blood is just warranted. The same can be said for a GM, or an aging QB.

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Darvinsun Collaborator

Darvinsun

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If Ron goes somewhere else and wins a SB I would be happy for him. The team that he has right now I believe he has done all he can do for them. The team itself was a SB team in 2015 but Ron' s and Shulas in ability to adjust cost the team severely. It is the reason why leads are never safe with the Panthers. Either Luke has to make an incredible play on defense or Cam on offense to save the day and that's  against any team we play (good or bad team). It' his style of play that handicaps this team.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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16 minutes ago, Darvinsun said:

Well Mr. Scott I tend to agree with your view points most of the time and I agree with your views here as well. Where is the coaching that stands out from Ron. Where were the play calls that negated the pass rush? Putting Tolbert and Fozzy, Dickson who had sucked all yr in blocking was not an answer. If he watched any of our films he would have known that we were going to be in trouble. Especially Atl game. Nope the only thing he said We are going to do what we do..buying into the media that his way was unstoppable when on film it had already been revealed. Denver defense was much better than Atl . Just like he felled to watch the Steelers tape. It revealed the weakness of the team on both sides of the ball. What SB winning coach throws away film? That act right there tells it all not to mention giving days off when they played like they were already on vacation. Rivera and Shula felled the team as well as players execution. Tolbert should not even been on the team. His play had started declining previous yr film study would have told them this.

Player evaluation and game day coaching decisions / management are Rivera's biggest weaknesses.

I don't see him getting better at either of those things.

 

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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2 minutes ago, Darvinsun said:

If Ron goes somewhere else and wins a SB I would be happy for him. The team that he has right now I believe he has done all he can do for them. The team itself was a SB team in 2015 but Ron' s and Shulas in ability to adjust cost the team severely. It is the reason why leads are never safe with the Panthers. Either Luke has to make an incredible play on defense or Cam on offense to save the day and that's  against any team we play (good or bad team). It' his style of play that handicaps this team.

The players not executing was why we lost the Super Bowl, that and the fact that perhaps we were simply outclassed by a superior football team.

As for Rivera, I think that what seems like his reluctance to step on the gas and someone's throat (thereby allowing other teams to hang around) is perhaps a valid one.This, along with his undying penchant for vets, regardless, along with the his undying loyalty to his underling protogès when things aren't going well is certainly a problem. I would still like to think that he can get over those weaknesses, but who knows?

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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14 minutes ago, top dawg said:

And with your attitude, the team with all that Super Bowl hardware likely wouldn't have it.

And, for the record (again), if Tepper decides to fire Rivera, I'm all for it. But, if he decides to keep Rivera, I'm all for it as well. I can see the positives and negatives of either decision. Moreover, also for the record, I am not in favor of ditching Rivera because I don't think he can ever win a championship, I can see ditching him because sometimes a change and new blood is just warranted. The same can be said for a GM, or an aging QB.

Yeah...That first statement doesn't really make any sense, but okay.

I'm not happy with keeping Rivera, but I can live with it if we get a new GM who 1) can help in some of the areas where Rivera is deficient, and 2) has authority to evaluate him and decide whether to keep him or not.

As mentioned elsewhere, if this happens it'll be the third time a GM has been fired while Rivera's been coaching here.  Some players are "coach killers". Rivera might just be a "GM killer".

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

Posted
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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah...That first statement doesn't really make any sense, but okay.

I'm not happy with keeping Rivera, but I can live with it if we get a new GM who 1) can help in some of the areas where Rivera is deficient, and 2) has authority to evaluate him and decide whether to keep him or not.

As mentioned elsewhere, if this happens it'll be the third time a GM has been fired while Rivera's been coaching here.  Some players are "coach killers". Rivera might just be a "GM killer".

It makes plenty of sense. See Chuck Knoll, Bill Cowher, and, yes, Mike Tomlin. 

Tony Dungy was pretty damned good also. And, personally, I think that J.J. got rid of Tom Landry too soon, and there are others.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

It makes plenty of sense. See Chuck Knoll, Bill Cowher, and, yes, Mike Tomlin. 

Tony Dungy was pretty damned good also. And, personally, I think that J.J. got rid of Tom Landry too soon, and there are others.

You're preaching the importance of patience using the example of a coach who won a Super Bowl in his second year? :thinking:

Cowher took 15 seasons to win a Super Bowl.  Are you willing to be that patient with Rivera?

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top dawg Grand Master

top dawg

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

You're preaching the importance of patience using the example of a coach who won a Super Bowl in his second year? :thinking:

Cowher took 15 seasons to win a Super Bowl.  Are you willing to be that patient with Rivera?

I just want a Super Bowl before I die. If I'm alive and it takes seven more seasons, then I'd be happy as hell. 

Didn't take too long did it? But the actual point is that he won it, and the Steelers FO, true to its philosophy, still retains Tomlin, as it believes he will bring the organization more hardware. And who can argue with them based upon their history?

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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10 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I just want a Super Bowl before I die. If I'm alive and it takes seven more seasons, then I'd be happy as hell. 

Didn't take too long did it? But the actual point is that he won it, and the Steelers FO, true to its philosophy, still retains Tomlin, as it believes he will bring the organization more hardware. And who can argue with them based upon their history?

Apparently, David Tepper could.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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1 minute ago, top dawg said:

If rumors are true. Doesn't mean he was right though. 

I would add that sometimes there is no right or wrong, just difference.

It's all judgment calls. Nobody knows the future.

My judgment: Rivera isn't good enough. The team's judgment May differ.

If it does I hope they're right and I'm wrong.

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