Panthers well represented at Clemson pro day

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

How isn't DT a major need? 

Define DT.

Or more specifically, define what defensive system we're going to be running. Then define DT.

If we need a 3-4 nose guard, I know there are people that think Poe is better suited to that position but I'm just not buying in. If we're talking 3-4 DE, those are fairly equivalent to 4-3 DTs.

I'm honestly still not sure how seriously to take the 3-4 talk. It starting to sound like it's serious, though. Sooo...

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

The sad fact is that for a guy to be there at #16 at a premium position there has to be some questions about him.

No argument.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Define DT.

Or more specifically, define what defensive system we're going to be running. Then define DT.

If we need a 3-4 nose guard, I know there are people that think Poe is better suited to that position but I'm just not buying in. If we're talking 3-4 DE, those are fairly equivalent to 4-3 DTs.

I'm honestly still not sure how seriously to take the 3-4 talk. It starting to sound like it's serious, though. Sooo...

Either or. Poe looked bad and has a high cap hit. Short looked bad and has a REALLY high cap hit. Both are going to be on the wrong side of 30. Butler is a bust. Picking a DT would not he unjustified in the least.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Either or. Poe looked bad and has a high cap hit. Short looked bad and has a REALLY high cap hit. Both are going to be on the wrong side of 30. Butler is a bust. Picking a DT would not he unjustified in the least.

There's a masochistic little part of me that wonders whether Butler would work as a 3-4 DE. However, since I believe that his problem is more poor attitude than lack of ability, it's probably not that worth checking on.

Short? I've said it before. Evaluating talent isn't just about judging how good someone is. It's equally about predicting how long they're going to be good.

You gotta love when something that's pretty much impossible to do is a major part of your job description.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

There's a masochistic little part of me that wonders whether Butler would work as a 3-4 DE. However, since I believe that his problem is more poor attitude than lack of ability, it's probably not that worth checking on.

Short? I've said it before. Evaluating talent isn't just about judging how good someone is. It's equally about predicting how long they're going to be good.

You gotta love when something that's pretty much impossible to do is a major part of your job description.

I think Butler just sucks. He was a big fish in a small pond. He looked good against midmajor talent. When he tested out athletically like a JAG that should've been a big red flag. I'm usually not a workout worshipper, but I do think they're more important for small school guys to see if their athleticism measures up or if they just looked good due to poor competition.

5.33 40, 29" vertical, 26 reps, subpar competition. Everything about the guy screamed that he was a borderline at best NFL talent. 

One of the chief criticisms I have of Gettleman is that the guy didn't seem to factor in "want to". Lots of his high round draft picks and re-signings seem to suffer from lack of want to.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Butler just sucks. He was a big fish in a small pond. He looked good against midmajor talent. When he tested out athletically like a JAG that should've been a big red flag. I'm usually not a workout worshipper, but I do think they're more important for small school guys to see if their athleticism measures up or if they just looked good due to poor competition.

5.33 40, 29" vertical, 26 reps, subpar competition. Everything about the guy screamed that he was a borderline at best NFL talent. 

One of the chief criticisms I have of Gettleman is that the guy didn't seem to factor in "want to". Lots of his high round draft picks and re-signings seem to suffer from lack of want to.

This is one where we disagree.

My theory on Butler has long been that when he was drafted, he expected to be a starter. Then Short shocked us all and signed his contract and suddenly Butler was a backup, and not happy about it, so he started half-assing.

Stupid way to respond of course, but it's not like all of these guys are brain surgeons.

Though hey, at least in that case there's something to point to. Kony Ealy? Not a clue.

The whole thing about his little sister had me expecting he'd be busting his ass all day every day. And the Super Bowl made it look like he'd arrived.

After that? Wish I knew.

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is one where we disagree.

My theory on Butler has long been that when he was drafted, he expected to be a starter. Then Short shocked us all and signed his contract and suddenly Butler was a backup, and not happy about it, so he started half-assing.

Stupid way to respond of course, but it's not like all of these guys are brain surgeons.

Though hey, at least in that case there's something to point to. Kony Ealy? Not a clue.

The whole thing about his little sister had me expecting he'd be busting his ass all day every day. And the Super Bowl made it look like he'd arrived.

After that? Wish I knew.

I think way too much is made about "starting" along the DL. That's the one position group where reserves can play near starter snaps due to rotations. Butler just wasn't good enough. Nagging injuries didn't do him any favors but it's not like the guy looked like a stud when he was healthy. I'm not a big fan of small school linemen simply because it's easy to look good as a lineman when you're a lot more physically talented than your competion, but Gettleman got it right with Moton. He swung and missed badly with Butler. He did that a lot with high picks on the DL after the Star/Short double dip. Butler was a 1st round bust, Early 2nd round, Hall 3rd round. Those three busts and licking Short > Star to re-sign (a move I agreed with at the time) largely created our current DL crisis.

I know you love you some Gettleman and I didn't think he should've been fired, but in hindsight it was justified. Bringing Hurney back certainly wasn't though.

[MasterAwesome]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is one where we disagree.

My theory on Butler has long been that when he was drafted, he expected to be a starter. Then Short shocked us all and signed his contract and suddenly Butler was a backup, and not happy about it, so he started half-assing.

Stupid way to respond of course, but it's not like all of these guys are brain surgeons.

Though hey, at least in that case there's something to point to. Kony Ealy? Not a clue.

The whole thing about his little sister had me expecting he'd be busting his ass all day every day. And the Super Bowl made it look like he'd arrived.

After that? Wish I knew.

It’s one thing to throw out some bizarre baseless theory where a rookie is pissed off that his starting job wasn’t handed to him (when does that ever happen?)...but then to use that baseless theory to explicitly attack that player’s intelligence? Umm what?

”Yeah ummm...I have a theory that DJ Moore was pulled over for speeding cause he was hurrying on his way to cheat on his girlfriend with another woman. What a despicable young man with a lack of morals...can’t believe we would draft a guy like that”.

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think way too much is made abour "starting" along the DL. That's the on position group where reserves can play near starter snaps die to rotations. Butler just wasn't good enough. Nagging injuries didn't do him any favors but it's not like the guy looked like a stud when he was healthy. I'm not a big fan of small school linemen simply because it's easy to look good as a lineman when you're a lot more physically talented than your competion, but Gettleman got it right with Moton. He swung and missed badly with Butler. He did that a lot with high picks on the DL after the Star/Short double dip. Butler was a 1st round bust, Early 2nd round, Hall 3rd round. Those three busts and licking Short > Star to re-sign (a move I agreed with at the time) largely created our current DL crisis.

I know you love you some Gettleman and I didn't think he should've been fired, but in hindsight it was justified. Bringing Hurney back certainly wasn't though.

Disagree there. He made mistakes, but he also did a good job recovering from them. I think if he'd have had a chance to run the rest of last season and the past offseason, we could be in a lot better shape.

It's kind of like watching how the Patriots work. Lord knows they pull some boneheaded moves, but the end result always seems to work out. If you look at it on the small scale, you're scratching your head, but the big picture looks good.

C'est la vie, though. Richardson done what he did, and here we are.

My wishful thinking is that we somehow steal Kevin Colbert from the Steelers after this season, but I'd also be happy with Joe Douglas. The trouble with Douglas is that it's speculated he's tied to Jim Schwartz. Not as big a fan of that idea.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

It’s one thing to throw out some bizarre baseless theory where a rookie is pissed off that his starting job wasn’t handed to him (when does that ever happen?)...but then to use that baseless theory to explicitly attack that player’s intelligence? Umm what?

”Yeah ummm...I have a theory that DJ Moore was pulled over for speeding cause he was hurrying on his way to cheat on his girlfriend with another woman. What a despicable young man with a lack of morals...can’t believe we would draft a guy like that”.

Hush, child. The adults are talking.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Disagree there. He made mistakes, but he also did a good job recovering from them. I think if he'd have had a chance to run the rest of last season and the past offseason, we could be in a lot better shape.

It's kind of like watching how the Patriots work. Lord knows they pull some boneheaded moves, but the end result always seems to work out. If you look at it on the small scale oh, you scratching your head, but the big picture looks good.

C'est la vie, though. Richardson done what he did, and here we are.

My wishful thinking is that we somehow steal Kevin Colbert from the Steelers after this season, but I'd also be happy with Joe Douglas. The trouble with Douglas is that it's speculated he's tied to Jim Schwartz. Not as big a fan of that idea.

I thought that we would e already plucked someone from the Steelers organization for the front office but damn, after watching arguably the best WR in the game force his way out of town for a 3rd and a 5th I'm not sure I'd necessarily be excited about it.

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I thought that we would e already plucked someone from the Steelers organization for the front office but damn, after watching arguably the best WR in the game force his way out of town for a 3rd and a 5th I'm not sure I'd necessarily be excited about it.

I figured we'd take a shot at Omar Khan. He's one of those guys who's been "on the cusp" for a while now. I'm not entirely displeased that we haven't, though. Khan is more of a cap manager than a talent evaluator.

I'd agree the Bell and Brown sagas haven't exactly been proud moments, but Colbert's been there a long time and the Steelers have had a long run of success under his leadership. That said, sometimes guys who've been successful for a long time can wind up stagnating (Ozzie Newsome didn't do quite as well in his final years) so who knows?

If I had to choose between Colbert and Khan, I'd take Colbert. The Schwartz thing aside, I'd probably be pretty happy with Douglas. He's an Ozzie protege (like DeCosta) so he might even use Newsome as a consultant to help reorganize things.

All of this is contingent on us not being stuck with Marty, of course.

[MasterAwesome]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Hush, child. The adults are talking.

You literally just called one of our players stupid because of some weird theory you made up in your head to justify one of Gettleman’s failed draft picks. That’s pretty pathetic dude, you should be ashamed. This is one of many examples of how you generally argue with “feelings” rather than facts.

“Then Short shocked us all by signing his contract” instead of “Then Gettleman extended Short” lol, I bet you really struggle to carefully craft your wording.

Anyways, I’m not gonna continue to derail another thread...MY BAD YALL. But like for real though...y’all are seeing this right? 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

You literally just called one of our players stupid because of some weird theory you made up in your head to justify one of Gettleman’s failed draft picks. That’s pretty pathetic dude, you should be ashamed. This is one of many examples of how you generally argue with “feelings” rather than facts.

“Then Short shocked us all by signing his contract” instead of “Then Gettleman extended Short” lol, I bet you really struggle to carefully craft your wording.

Anyways, I’m not gonna continue to derail another thread...MY BAD YALL. But like for real though...y’all are seeing this right? 

Shhh.