What if Panthers had that 17th pick?

[DirtyMagic97]

Like I said previously. Maybe we should bow and pay homage to you and your infinite wisdom. NOT!!!!!!!!!

Oh, not you again.

:leaving:

[panthers55]

Given Hurney's willingness to gamble in the draft and trade future picks for the present, I wouldn't be surprised f we traded our next year's first for someone this year. So all this speculation that by getting Brown we will miss out on better players may be irrelevant. Plus it also makes little sense to compare Brown's size for example to other players or what scouts saw last year when you consider that he is not the same player he was last year. The real issue is whether he currently with his experience and reportedly bulked up physique would still put him outside the first round compared to guys coming out of college. Rating reports from last year are really not as relavent for comparison since he reportedly is 10 lbs bigger than he was last year. Speed and athleticism don't necessarily improve over time and would remain germaine. But any comments like size and technique deficits might be not relevant anymore.

[jramsey4]

Given Hurney's willingness to gamble in the draft and trade future picks for the present, I wouldn't be surprised f we traded our next year's first for someone this year. So all this speculation that by getting Brown we will miss out on better players may be irrelevant. Plus it also makes little sense to compare Brown's size for example to other players or what scouts saw last year when you consider that he is not the same player he was last year. The real issue is whether he currently with his experience and reportedly bulked up physique would still put him outside the first round compared to guys coming out of college. Rating reports from last year are really not as relavent for comparison since he reportedly is 10 lbs bigger than he was last year. Speed and athleticism don't necessarily improve over time and would remain germaine. But any comments like size and technique deficits might be not relevant anymore.

When I say size I mean Height the area you are stuck with. He is 6'1" and would be that no matter when he came out. Thats what would make him fall. Kind of like no matter how good a QB is if he is 6'0" he will almost always fall (Brees). Whether or not that is a fair or good way to judge players and value is debatable but that is how NFL teams do it.

[kdrh5]

We'd probably draft Jason Pierre-Paul haha

[jramsey4]

We'd probably draft Jason Pierre-Paul haha

If Meeks had liked him I would be fine (I put faith in Meeks). Personally little weary about him but he does have some athleticism.

[panthers55]

When I say size I mean Height the area you are stuck with. He is 6'1" and would be that no matter when he came out. Thats what would make him fall. Kind of like no matter how good a QB is if he is 6'0" he will almost always fall (Brees). Whether or not that is a fair or good way to judge players and value is debatable but that is how NFL teams do it.

And as we all know in the NFL, guidelines like height don't necessarily apply to all positions. Quarterback is certainly different because he has to see over the line of 6-4 or 6-5 linemen. On the other hand 6'1" is not that short for a lineman. Particularly in the kind of scheme that Meeks runs. Attributes like arm span, lower body strength, ability to get leverage etc all matter more than vertical height. In fact very tall lineman can actually be at a disadvantage against smaller guys who have very good leverage and a strong motor like Brown.

So would he fall this year? Hard to say. I can tell you that I feel more comfortable with Brown coming on with a year of experience than I would feel bringing in a rookie to start right now. But that is me and 30 years of watching rookies come in and struggle for at least a year in the NFL. He says he wants to be like Freeney who is also 6'1" and now weighs 268 which is almost exactly what Brown weighs. And Freeney was the 16th pick in the draft in 2002.

[kdrh5]

If Meeks had liked him I would be fine (I put faith in Meeks). Personally little weary about him but he does have some athleticism.

Yep. Personally, I'd want us to select Brian Price if we had a first-rounder this year.

[jramsey4]

And as we all know in the NFL, guidelines like height don't necessarily apply to all positions. Quarterback is certainly different because he has to see over the line of 6-4 or 6-5 linemen. On the other hand 6'1" is not that short for a lineman. Particularly in the kind of scheme that Meeks runs. Attributes like arm span, lower body strength, ability to get leverage etc all matter more than vertical height. In fact very tall lineman can actually be at a disadvantage against smaller guys who have very good leverage and a strong motor like Brown.

So would he fall this year? Hard to say. I can tell you that I feel more comfortable with Brown coming on with a year of experience than I would feel bringing in a rookie to start right now. But that is me and 30 years of watching rookies come in and struggle for at least a year in the NFL. He says he wants to be like Freeney who is also 6'1" and now weighs 268 which is almost exactly what Brown weighs. And Freeney was the 16th pick in the draft in 2002.

Actually he was the 11th pick but that was also 8 years ago and he ran a 4.4 40 and Freeny had almost 17 sacks his senior. Over his career there he recorded 34 sacks, 104 tackles, 14 forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries, setting a NCAA single-season records for forced fumbles and fumble recoveries.

[panthers55]

Actually he was the 11th pick but that was also 8 years ago and he ran a 4.4 40 and Freeny had almost 17 sacks his senior. Over his career there he recorded 34 sacks, 104 tackles, 14 forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries, setting a NCAA single-season records for forced fumbles and fumble recoveries.

Freeney was a great college player. Of his 34 sacks half came his senior year. Interestingly Brown had 13.5 sacks his junior year which was his last year in college. I could easily see him passing Freeney since he had 23 to that point and improved his sacks every year he played. He would have only needed 11 to pass Freeney and I could actually see him approaching Freeney's 16.5. Brown also had 100 tackles with 46 for a loss in 3 years while Freeney only had 104 in 4 years.. Again he would have definitely surpassed Freeney. He definitely is slower in the 40 than Freeney at a still respectable 4.73. But then of course the 40 yard dash time for a linemen seems hardly important. The first and second step seems a lot more important and both seems pretty fast off the line.

It seems to me Brown is very similar to Freeney which is pretty good considering he only played 3 years in college. I think based on the numbers it makes Brown an even better deal at this point. Best of all we paid seond round money for him instead of the outrageous amount it would have taken to sign him this year.

[scpanther22]

Gantt take from chat

[Comment From fizfiz: ]

If everette brown came out this year what round would he go in?

Monday April 19, 2010 12:33 fiz

12:34 Darin Gantt: Talked to some scouts who said he's late fist, early second. Behind Morgan and JPP.

[panthers55]

Of course all of the speculation assumes Brown would not have improved from his junior year to his senior year. Most of the time that isn't true. From his sophomore to his junior year for example he went from 6.5 sacks to 13.5 sacks. If he made the same progression he gets between 15-20. That would have placed him solidly in the first round.

Just sayin................

[DaveThePanther2008]

Man you are stubborn. I actually don't much care for Morgan. But the simple fact of the matter is he will be drafted 1st and that would have been the case had Brown stayed in school. That was due to him being undersized. Why is this so hard for you to understand? I actually would rather have Brown. No matter who you think will be better in the NFL FO would have still have questions about his size.

If we had traded last years 2nd and a future pick (3rd and a player or even a 2nd) I would be fine with the pick because he was a decent value pick where we got him but not when it ended up being a 1st rounder. It has nothing to do with who is better it has to do with value. And I know I'll get a person talking about semantics but should a FO not be judged by the quality of there drafting, signing, and trading. This trade IMO was not worth it.

You are so dead set on the size being the deciding factor. Regardless that he would have most likely dominated the ACC in 09.

He was considered top 10 last season and fell out of the 1st round. We got a chance to get a 1st round talent in the 2nd round. We took it. I knew that is why you were so locked in on him being below your Demigod Morgan. This quanitifies your we wasted our 1st round pick on second round talent.

Wonder how quickly you will jump on the "What a great pickup" Bandwagon when he reaches double digit sacks. Guess we will have to see.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Oh, not you again.

:leaving:

Don't like it....TOUGH...

Not gonna let u capture this thread like you did the other one.