Steinbrenner dead

[Mr. Scot]

It is within the rules of the game. Saying he is hurting the game by spending that much money is no different than saying players hurt the game by taking the money. It is within the rules, and it's no different than any other business. You spend money to make money, and he made a substantial amount.

And it isn't even like they were in the World Series every single year. Plenty of small market teams made the playoffs and even got to the series. The death of baseball has less to do with salary caps and more to do with what Americans want in a sport. Speed. It's the soccer effect. Most people still like to go to games, but to watch it on TV for a casual sports fan is the equivalent of torture.

I have much more respect for an owner who tries to win games for the fans...the people that are the ONLY reason he is allowed to do what he can do, than an owner who is simply in it to better the league.

You don't seriously think you can support the argument that large market teams have no unfair advantage in MLB, do you?

The fact that Steinbrenner's teams didn't win every year despite his outspending nearly everyone is not exactly an argument for his greatness.

I wouldn't exactly go supporting the notion that the MLB players union has the good of the game as their highest goal either, especially given that it basically took an act of Congress to get them to stop hiding players from scrutiny about steroid use.

And again, to the supporters of the Stenbrenner method, am I to take it that Jerry Jones is your ideal NFL owner? :nonod:

[DirtyMagic97]

You don't seriously think you can support the argument that large market teams have no unfair advantage in MLB, do you?

The fact that Steinbrenner's teams didn't win every year despite his outspending nearly everyone is not exactly an argument for his greatness.

I wouldn't exactly go supporting the notion that the MLB players union has the good of the game as their highest goal either, especially given that it basically took an act of Congress to get them to stop hiding players from scrutiny about steroid use.

And again, to the supporters of the Stenbrenner method, am I to take it that Jerry Jones is your ideal NFL owner? :nonod:

You claimed salary cap was the reason for the death of baseball. I was giving an argument against that by saying small market teams make the playoffs every year, and support still isn't great.

And no, the players union doesn't have the leagues best interest at heart. Which is my exact point. Steinbrenner, whether he wanted to or not, could not have changed the salary cap issue himself. So he isn't the single-handed bad guy here.

And your Jerry Jones guilt trip aside, if the NFL had no salary cap and JR had more money than every other team and didn't spend it to make the team better than anyone else...yes I'd be a bit upset.

[Panthro]

And in the process, helped knock baseball out of its spot as the preeminent American sport. But hey, if you think maximizing one's own profits at the cost of the game that produces those profits, then Steinbrenner is your guy (Jerry Jones too).

The NFL's owners as a group have been smart enough to know that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It was their ability to put their own individual interests second to the good of the bigger game that made football what it is today. Working together elevated their collective brand, effectively taking all of them to greater heights than any one of them could have accomplished individually.

That's why football is king of the sports landscape today while baseball is a sad also-ran.

Ask yourself this question: Do you want Jerry Jones to succeed in maximizing the Cowboys at the expense of the game and every other team in the league? If you say no, then how can you praise Steinbrenner? He and Jones practice exactly the same MO.

I have zero respect for any owner who maximizes his own team at the expense of the sport, not to mention an owner who's too big a coward to play on a level field. That's Jones, and it was Steinbrenner too.

This reeks of socialism. Welcome aboard!

[c0r]

to say steinbrenner ruined baseball is completely ridiculous. his investment in the yankees has to be one of the best in the history of investments and baseball (and the yankees) are more popular than when he bought the team so i don't really buy the whole 'he destroyed baseball' thing.

i hate the yankess and hated steinbrenner, but i respect him for doing everything it took to win championships and increase the value of his team.

[Mr. Scot]

to say steinbrenner ruined baseball is completely ridiculous. his investment in the yankees has to be one of the best in the history of investments and baseball (and the yankees) are more popular than when he bought the team so i don't really buy the whole 'he destroyed baseball' thing.

i hate the yankess and hated steinbrenner, but i respect him for doing everything it took to win championships and increase the value of his team.

The owners as a whole ruined baseball, but Steinbrenner played a part bigger than several others because he held a lot of influence.

You still haven't answered whether or not you admire Jerry Jones.

[c0r]

The owners as a whole ruined baseball, but Steinbrenner played a part bigger than several others because he held a lot of influence.

You still haven't answered whether or not you admire Jerry Jones.

i hate jerry jones because he is a douchebag (as was steinbrenner) but he has been a great owner for the NFL. and i respect that.

[j2sgam]

All the sympathy in the world to his family, but let's be honest. Jerry Jones is trying to be the Steinbrenner of football.

Fixed..Yous can argue all yous want. Baseball is and has been declining for years, Steinbrenner was one of the ones that has kept this sport worth the watching. Love him or hate him, the man did great things and deserves respect. The Yankees were the all time World Series champs before George took over, and he made them better, and made the league better...

What Im worried about is, if its true, I had read a few years back that his sons do not want the team. They plan to get rid of it after, well, sometime after his passing. Could we really see a 'For Sale' sign outside of Yankee Stadium?

[Mr. Scot]

i hate jerry jones because he is a douchebag (as was steinbrenner) but he has been a great owner for the NFL. and i respect that.

Jerry Jones a great owner? :confused:

In the words of Michael Irvin, "Come on, man".

The Cowboys haven't been a serious contender since the salary cap was instituted, i.e. the time when guys like Jones and the DeBartolo family stopped being able to just outspend everyone else for the big free agents and were forced to compete on a level playing field (something Steinbrenner constantly fought to prevent).

By what definition is a guy who can't field a contender without being able to overspend a great owner, in any sport?

[c0r]

Jerry Jones a great owner? :confused:

In the words of Michael Irvin, "Come on, man".

The Cowboys haven't been a serious contender since the salary cap was instituted, i.e. the time when guys like Jones and the DeBartolo family stopped being able to just outspend everyone else for the big free agents and were forced to compete on a level playing field (something Steinbrenner constantly fought to prevent).

By what definition is a guy who can't field a contender without being able to overspend a great owner, in any sport?

look at what he has done for the sport. he is one of the pioneers of the NFL Network. he has held his brand to a high enough level that the cowboys are still the most popular team in america (maybe the world - like the yankees).

[Mr. Scot]

look at what he has done for the sport. he is one of the pioneers of the NFL Network. he has held his brand to a high enough level that the cowboys are still the most popular team in america (maybe the world - like the yankees).

The Cowboys aren't anywhere near the popularity they once had. And a pretty solid percentage of even the most diehard Cowboy fans wish Jerry Jones was gone.

And I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to quote this post on the Eagles forum now :sosp:

[c0r]

the cowboys are still the most popular team in the league (patriots are close second) and i dont care what the cowboy fans think. jerry jones has built that palace for the team and look at what he has done for the league.

[Mr. Scot]

the cowboys are still the most popular team in the league (patriots are close second) and i dont care what the cowboy fans think. jerry jones has built that palace for the team and look at what he has done for the league.

Even accepting the notion that Jones has done a lot for the league (which I don't) you also have to remember that he's been one of the biggest opponents of the salary cap. Throw in trying to make side deals that essentially exempted him from the rules.

The big reason Jones hasn't had the effect on football that Steinbrenner had on baseball is that he lost those battles. Steinbrenner won them. If Jones had actually gotten his way, the NFL would still be back in the time when there were 3 teams contending every year and the rest of the fanbases just had to sit back and watch and hope.

What the league was smart enough to realize was that 32 energized fanbases will always lead to more revenue than just having a few teams contending and everybody else just hoping to be competitive. That was the pre-salary cap era. With the cap in place and everyone on a level field, the NFL skyrocketed.

And who knows? baseball might have been able to do that too, but they weren't able to defeat their Goliath. The NFL did.