A little perspective (wide receivers)...

[panthers55]

I swear, people are always complaining that Fox won't play rookies, which is a myth anyway, yet he's also considered an idiot because he won't forsake his rookie WR's this year for an expensive FA. You can't have it both ways. Do we want the Panthers to develop WR's or not? He sure as hell can't do that by bringing in a FA, which means he will have to cut or bench one of those rookies, not to mention that this team has already given up too many draft picks lately.

BTW, it's hard for a WR to thrive when he's only going to get 2-3 chances a game. These guys are just like O-linemen, RB's and QB's...they need to get into the flow of the game and feel like they're part of the offense. That's awful hard to do when you're running the ball 35 times a game.

But the point of this thread is that if our usual drafting luck holds true no more than 1 perhaps none of the rookies will pan out. So the reality is that if you acquired a free agent with already proven ability by trading that draft pick away, you would have instant production and wouldn't be gambling that your draft pick worked out.

You are talking about giving rookies plenty of work to develop and the much easier approach is bring in a veteran who already is developed and you aren't worried about how he develops, he is already there. Plus you don't have to draft half a dozen guys and wait three years to see if he actually will be any good.

[monstercat]

I think the Panthers have drafted pretty damn well over the last 5 years or so, and I think that LaFell and Gettis were great picks who just need reps and a QB who can get them the ball on time and on target.

People keep making a big deal about some of these "drops" (some of which weren't drops in the first place by LaFell and Gettis... they were bad passes and would have been great catches, had they been made), but Steve Smith and Moose had their share of drops over the years, even as proven vets.

[bleys]

But the point of this thread is that if our usual drafting luck holds true no more than 1 perhaps none of the rookies will pan out. So the reality is that if you acquired a free agent with already proven ability by trading that draft pick away, you would have instant production and wouldn't be gambling that your draft pick worked out.

You are talking about giving rookies plenty of work to develop and the much easier approach is bring in a veteran who already is developed and you aren't worried about how he develops, he is already there. Plus you don't have to draft half a dozen guys and wait three years to see if he actually will be any good.

and you can give those rookies more time to develop, and you're not putting all your eggs in one basket that most likely will fail...

gotta have it both ways.. at that position.

[bleys]

I think the Panthers have drafted pretty damn well over the last 5 years or so, and I think that LaFell and Gettis were great picks who just need reps and a QB who can get them the ball on time and on target.

you are exactly right.. they have drafted reaaaal well. I have been much happier in recent years with our drafting..

but that doesn't excuse our drafting at WR.. and as the main point of this thread points out, it's just as likely hit or miss as QB in this league.. and regardless of other teams, THIS team fails at WR.. you have to go with what works.. FA's are meant to fill holes where the draft fails.. WR is that position where you can afford to go FA on the issue, and develop your rookies in a timely fashion..

I feel it's comparing apples and oranges...

[nfcchamp2004]

LaFell and Gettis seem like good picks but I wish we would have cut Jarrett and signed Mark Clayton or Housh for a 1 year deal.

[monstercat]

you are exactly right.. they have drafted reaaaal well. I have been much happier in recent years with our drafting..

but that doesn't excuse our drafting at WR.. and as the main point of this thread points out, it's just as likely hit or miss as QB in this league.. and regardless of other teams, THIS team fails at WR.. you have to go with what works.. FA's are meant to fill holes where the draft fails.. WR is that position where you can afford to go FA on the issue, and develop your rookies in a timely fashion..

I feel it's comparing apples and oranges...

In case you have forgotten, the Panthers have tried the FA route too in the last few years, with very little in the way of positive results. Hell, I can't even remember the guy's name that they signed out of Seattle now, but I do remember that everybody was happy and excited that they finally went after a productive WR with play off experience, but that guy didn't accomplish a damn thing here. Keyshawn didn't exactly take us to the promised land either, and I don't even consider Moose a FA acquisition because the Panthers drafted him.

[Guest DrewBreesIsGod]

[Jrock3016]

In case you have forgotten, the Panthers have tried the FA route too in the last few years, with very little in the way of positive results. Hell, I can't even remember the guy's name that they signed out of Seattle now, but I do remember that everybody was happy and excited that they finally went after a productive WR with play off experience, but that guy didn't accomplish a damn thing here. Keyshawn didn't exactly take us to the promised land either, and I don't even consider Moose a FA acquisition because the Panthers drafted him.

Tho Keyshawn did better than most of the other receivers we obtained, I feel that our problem is the type of receivers we draft. They are all the same. Very slow, very tall.

Maybe if we find a reciever who has breakaway speed and stop trying to find another Moose our weakness would become a strength

[bleys]

In case you have forgotten, the Panthers have tried the FA route too in the last few years, with very little in the way of positive results. Hell, I can't even remember the guy's name that they signed out of Seattle now, but I do remember that everybody was happy and excited that they finally went after a productive WR with play off experience, but that guy didn't accomplish a damn thing here. Keyshawn didn't exactly take us to the promised land either, and I don't even consider Moose a FA acquisition because the Panthers drafted him.

Keyshawn was old and Hackett wasn't exactly proven other than a few good games (1 being a great game in the playoffs), besides he was highly injury prone.. regardless, neither have the skill set as Bolden or Marshall..

I find those excuses to come up short in this argument.. but that's just me.. I would like to think it's obvious to others as well..

let's look at the names (as I have not forgotten):

Keyshawn

Hackett

Moose (was brought back via FA, so he does count, technically.. although I see your point.. )

I don't think those names compare to the likes of Bolden or Marshall..

now.. Keyshawn, against popular belief, was actually a solid contributor.. so really, that DID work out well.. but he wasn't a game changer... and we could have had game changers...

so the issue isn't FA.. it's who did we go for? non-game changers, some at the end of their career -vs- 2 prolific players who are top receivers in the league..

hardly a comparison to make with the sole purpose of saying FA is a bad route... maybe Fox/Hurney/whoever needs to analyze WHY those FA acquisitions failed..

[Brooklyn Bully]

McNabb/Vick + one solid WR + solid D + one good TE + good RBs = very good team

Jake + good WRs + good D + average TEs + solid RBs = above average team

Moore/Clausen + one solid WR + average D + average TEs + solid RBs = 0-2

There is one key to that string there. Clausen hopefully can change ours...one day.

[panthers55]

I think the Panthers have drafted pretty damn well over the last 5 years or so, and I think that LaFell and Gettis were great picks who just need reps and a QB who can get them the ball on time and on target.

People keep making a big deal about some of these "drops" (some of which weren't drops in the first place by LaFell and Gettis... they were bad passes and would have been great catches, had they been made), but Steve Smith and Moose had their share of drops over the years, even as proven vets.

We may have drafted well at some positions but WR- not well at all. LaFell and Gettis may end up being great picks but to say so already is making the same foolish mistake people do when they say someone who doesn't contribute right away is a bust. Look at Colbert. After his rookie year anyone would have said he was a great pick and the sky was the limit. Who knew that he would go downhill from there. LaFell, Gettis and

Edwards all may prove to be great, but that is 1 or 2 years down the road. Until then, we suffer the same lack of production we have all along.

[panthers55]

Keyshawn was old and Hackett wasn't exactly proven other than a few good games (1 being a great game in the playoffs), besides he was highly injury prone.. regardless, neither have the skill set as Bolden or Marshall..

I find those excuses to come up short in this argument.. but that's just me.. I would like to think it's obvious to others as well..

let's look at the names (as I have not forgotten):

Keyshawn

Hackett

Moose (was brought back via FA, so he does count, technically.. although I see your point.. )

I don't think those names compare to the likes of Bolden or Marshall..

now.. Keyshawn, against popular belief, was actually a solid contributor.. so really, that DID work out well.. but he wasn't a game changer... and we could have had game changers...

so the issue isn't FA.. it's who did we go for? non-game changers, some at the end of their career -vs- 2 prolific players who are top receivers in the league..

hardly a comparison to make with the sole purpose of saying FA is a bad route... maybe Fox/Hurney/whoever needs to analyze WHY those FA acquisitions failed..

The discussion is simple. What free agent wide receiver in the last 10 years have we brought in when he was in his prime??

Johnson, Moose and Proehl were toward the end of their careers. Hackett was a "never was" the same as Wright and others we have tried.

Truth is that we take guys on the fringe and try to get something out of them. Guys in their prime like Boldin or Marshall are either too expensive, problem children or whatever. But they have failed for the most part because they either weren't that great to begin with or were over the hill by the time they got here.

[bleys]

The discussion is simple. What free agent wide receiver in the last 10 years have we brought in when he was in his prime??

Johnson, Moose and Proehl were toward the end of their careers. Hackett was a "never was" the same as Wright and others we have tried.

Truth is that we take guys on the fringe and try to get something out of them. Guys in their prime like Boldin or Marshall are either too expensive, problem children or whatever. But they have failed for the most part because they either weren't that great to begin with or were over the hill by the time they got here.

seems simple enough to me...

[scpanther22]

The discussion is simple. What free agent wide receiver in the last 10 years have we brought in when he was in his prime??

Johnson, Moose and Proehl were toward the end of their careers. Hackett was a "never was" the same as Wright and others we have tried.

Truth is that we take guys on the fringe and try to get something out of them. Guys in their prime like Boldin or Marshall are either too expensive, problem children or whatever. But they have failed for the most part because they either weren't that great to begin with or were over the hill by the time they got here.

I agree

The only guy who I wanted was Boldin.He would have been a perfect fit here.