Taking plays off...who does and who doesn't?

[Urrymonster]

Really Detriot and the Raiders should of been two extra bye weeks. So Pep technically had 9 and 1/2 sacks IMHO.

Ridiculous thing to say. You think Allen and co only had sacks against the top teams in the NFL? No much like all other DEs they got their sacks in bunches and then had games where they did not appear on the stat sheet.

[Fiz]

Ok so other DEs generate more consistent pressure that is fair. Out of those DEs who had a DL as weak as we did in rushing the QB?

hmmm let's see Aaron Kampman's defensive line fell apart around him.

Mario Williams plays next to nothing (Okoye regressed horribly and sucks now)

John Abraham plays next to three guys they pulled off the street

last year, Patrick Kerney was the only person on his line worth a damn

[stankowalski]

And are all these "other players that do it" saying that their team and organization is whats holding them back?

You have to look at the context in which things are said, and what Buckner was indeed replying to.

The entire point is, Peppers is not dominating like how he could be.

How should Peppers be dominating? Should he break the sack record every year? As great of a defensive end as Strahan was, he only had 3 years where he outperformed Peppers in terms of sacks. In fact, if Peppers were to play out the same number of years as Strahan, he will have more sacks at the end of his career. And their tackle numbers over the same number of years is pretty close to the same.

Sometimes I think the fact that Peppers is so athletic it gives some people the idea that he should be dominating even more than he is. That's crazy talk. The NFL is full of dominant athletes. Even as athletic as Peppers is, he is not so far and away more talented than everybody else that he should be in his own league.

[bleys]

i've never seen stankowalski convincingly argue his side of any issue without resorting to straw men and weak equivocations.

I'm still waiting for something worth reading...

I remember last year Pep stood up while the play was still going and about got injured cause he wasn't even paying attention.

Damn if only I could find that video...

[Fiz]

stan i have you on ignore im not clicking that.

also this argument really divides down a predictable line.

On one side are people that simply read stat sheets; on the other are people that watch more than 16 games a year.

[RazzleDazzle]

Ridiculous thing to say. You think Allen and co only had sacks against the top teams in the NFL? No much like all other DEs they got their sacks in bunches and then had games where they did not appear on the stat sheet.

Yeah, your right. I'm gonna miss Peppers. I wish he didn't want to leave, we do need him.

[Urrymonster]

hmmm let's see Aaron Kampman's defensive line fell apart around him.

Mario Williams plays next to nothing (Okoye regressed horribly and sucks now)

John Abraham plays next to three guys they pulled off the street

last year, Patrick Kerney was the only person on his line worth a damn

Kampman much like Peppers failed to generate consistent pressure due to the rest of the DL.

Abraham, much like Peppers, had spells of games where he has no impact on whatsoever. He also is also often subbed out i obvious rushing situations to keep him fresh for passing situations.

Kerney was on a hot streak early last year, so what did teams do? The roled plays away from him and start to double him. He then appeared less frequently in the remainder of the season, I believe he was around the 11 sack mark at the mid point of the season?

Point is all these failings that Pepper apparnetly has, are the same failings that all the other DEs in the legue have. They play in a position that allows opposing offenses to gameplan round them, thus giving the appearance that they dissapear for games on end. They also play in a position that is heavily reliant on the rest of the line in generating pressure as well. Abraham is the exception, but he is used in a completely different role than all the other elite DEs.

[stankowalski]

I never said sacks aren't considered pressure... Thanks for putting words in my mouth, though it does show how weak your argument is. And no, hurries aren't an "official stat" but to say that because of that they can't be used in an argument is moronic.

Look back at my post and notice the word continual pressure. I'm not saying that Peppers isn't a good DE and not a lot of people here would say that either. This is about whether or not he takes plays off, something of which you have no strong argument against and it isn't something that your "official stats" can help with. He may get pressure on the QB now and then, but that doesn't mean he doesn't take plays off, does it?

Quote from you:"The original argument is stupid because you are judging it by tackles and sacks.

What you didn't take into account was the PRESSURE that they put on the quarterback."

You are implying from those two statements that sacks aren't the same as pressure. You are saying that I didn't take PRESSURE into account by relying on sacks. Try again, dummy.

Pressure, or continual pressure, is a term that is interchangeable with quarterback hurries. An argument should be supported by facts, which in this case are stats. You say he doesn't put continual pressure, or hurry the quarterback, and I say that he does. I can't prove it, and you can't prove it, it is merely an opinion based on what we see.

And I think I've presented a good argument that Peppers doesn't take plays off any more than any other DE does. You haven't provided anything but your poo opinion on the matter with no substantial proof about anything. You expect me to take your opinion and speculations seriously? Don't think so. In this technological age it is very simple for someone to prove something like this. I have seen many, many different clips on youtube and other video hosting sites with Peppers MAKING plays. However, I have yet to see any videos where Peppers is taking plays "off". Show me the money.

[hdevonxz]

How should Peppers be dominating? Should he break the sack record every year? As great of a defensive end as Strahan was, he only had 3 years where he outperformed Peppers in terms of sacks. In fact, if Peppers were to play out the same number of years as Strahan, he will have more sacks at the end of his career. And their tackle numbers over the same number of years is pretty close to the same.

Sometimes I think the fact that Peppers is so athletic it gives some people the idea that he should be dominating even more than he is. That's crazy talk. The NFL is full of dominant athletes. Even as athletic as Peppers is, he is not so far and away more talented than everybody else that he should be in his own league.

Break the sack record?

I could care less about stats, but there are honestly games where Peppers is not even a factor. You might as well stick a heavy dummy at his position it would make as much of a difference.

What I would like, is to see Peppers play up to and beyond his potential. Just like every other person/reporter/sports analysts says. He also needs to come up in big games against big competition.

[stankowalski]

stan i have you on ignore im not clicking that.

also this argument really divides down a predictable line.

On one side are people that simply read stat sheets; on the other are people that watch more than 16 games a year.

And then there are people that do both...and that ain't you.

[Fiz]

Kampman much like Peppers failed to generate consistent pressure due to the rest of the DL.

no he didn't. he was actually double teamed all year and still played hard, unlike Peppers who was usually being single blocked by a slot receiver by years end.

Abraham, much like Peppers, had spells of games where he has no impact on whatsoever.

what is your definition of impact on a game? your argument wavers between leaning on two statistics (pressures and sacks) then when that gets pointed out, referring to pressure, something you can't really quantify. at least be consistent.

Kerney was on a hot streak early last year, so what did teams do? The roled plays away from him and start to double him. He then appeared less frequently in the remainder of the season, I believe he was around the 11 sack mark at the mid point of the season?

And you know what? He occupied those double teams and worked through them. You think Daryll Tapp got 7 sacks because he's an elite player?

Point is all these failings that Pepper apparnetly has, are the same failings that all the other DEs in the legue have.

no, that's not the point. That's not the point at all. nowhere have you supported this point. You don't have a point. You came in here determined to defend peppers, and you're going to warp all the statistics and your "observations" you can to support you assertion that he doesn't take off plays. it's completely intellectually dishonest.

here, go here, go watch peppers for the entire year. It's really quick to do. Watch him standing up, watching plays, ignoring things, staring at the grass.

then go back and watch any other what you would consider elite defensive end. Do they do that? Do you ever see Justin Tuck getting single teamed by tight ends? Do teams run right at Mario Williams in the 4th quarter? does dwight freeney come out of his stance to standing up straight on 3rd down?

i'll save you effort: no, no they don't.

[CatfanMO]

Alright smart guys. I've seen quite a few people complaining about how Peppers is lazy, takes plays off, yada, yada, yada.

So my question to you is who does and does not take plays off? You've already declared that Pep takes plays off. How about Jared Allen? He's a pretty high motor guy right? Surely he doesn't take plays off. I think we can all agree that he is one of the best DE's in the league, and if you don't think so, get the hell out of this thread. Anyway...he played in the same number of games and had 3 more tackles than Peppers. So he must be pretty lazy too, huh? Pfft. How about Richard Seymour? Is he lazy too? He only had 52 tackles and 8 sacks. f*cking slacker. Aaron Kampman? He had 62 tackles and 9.5 sacks. Only 9.5 sacks?!?!?! WTF was he taking sedatives?

Is there not one f*cking defensive end in the league that doesn't sleepwalk his way through games?

Well hell no he didnt take off this year. Contract year. duh...

[Fox007]

Why is every so upset we are losing someone who "takes off so many plays"?

I mean really our best defensive end ever, is a lazy ass bum......what does that say about our team as whole then?

[stankowalski]

i've never seen stankowalski convincingly argue his side of any issue without resorting to straw men and weak equivocations.

I haven't overstated anyones opinion. You guys say that Peppers takes plays off, I say he doesn't. I provide stats from comparable DE's from around the league...you guys start drooling. Then I ask for some hard facts to back up your position...you offer speculation, hyperbole, and opinion. Any person that believes Peppers takes plays off and then can't back that up with any definitive proof deserves to be called an idiot and ridiculed.

I will not stand idly by while one of the best players this franchise has ever had gets villified by a bunch of babbling nancies.