Jump to content

  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

How many games does it take...

mav1234

By mav1234,
in Carolina Panthers

Recommended Posts

mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
Posted

Obviously, QB is a huge need on this team. We'd all love to have an elite passer who is one of the best in the league... but that isn't always possible. Sometimes, you build around a guy who isn't elite but can still do some good things. But how do you decide who to build around?

How many games does it take for you to judge if a quarterback is a good enough player to be worth building around? Do they even need to play a pro game? How quickly can your mind change?

What criteria do you require?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheRealDeal Newbie

TheRealDeal

Posted
Posted

It depends on the content of the games, how much you have seen of that player before entering the NFL, if the games were played all together or spread out, and multiple other factors.

I'd prefer to see a continuous season of a QB to decide but often times you don't get that chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CAVSS Newbie

CAVSS

Posted
Posted

Depends of course we would all like to see a guy perform like Peyton for three seasons and then his team lets him walk and the Panthers are the only team to bid on him and we get him cheap. Or maybe we pick up the next Kurt Warner from the Arena league for next to nothing. Or we snag the next Brady in the 6th round. But those scenarios aren't very realistic.

Right now I'm ready to take a chance on a guy who has shown flashes of greatness. Not just in the draft. I think Flynn and that backup from Chicago have shown flashes also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CAVSS Newbie

CAVSS

Posted
Posted

I don't think that answered any of the OP

Really? Flashes is my current criteria. Partially due to desperation.

Or are these my ideal situations for evaluations. Which would be the first sentence of my OP. :confused:

OK I re-read the OP I think I only answered the last question. To be fair there were a lot of questions in the OP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CAVSS Newbie

CAVSS

Posted
Posted

OK fug me I get what mav was asking.

I think that I would have to see a few seasons of consecutive play before I gave up on a guy, as long as the play seemed promising if not great or even good. (I saw NOTHING promising from pickles) Sometimes even great players have down years.

But I also think that you have to go all in when you decide a guy is your franchise guy. You start building around him and keep his confidence up until there is no hope. (Like we should have done with Matt Moore IMO)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OneBadassCat Newbie

OneBadassCat

Posted
Posted

I think it depends on the body of work, but more importantly the circumstances of the individual games, and supporting cast. I'd say at least 10 games and at least in some of those games the QB shows that he was basically the reason they won. Meaning, he can carry the team, make up for his own faults(and the teams) and adversity if need be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
  • Author
Posted

There are teams that basically bet their future on a player given preseason games and college time and almost no or at least very little play time. Kolb, for instance, would probably have a new team right now if not for the CBA... Others go for backups who have shown glimpses of things. It'd be nice if we had a season to a evaluate a guy, but it's tough. Sometimes all you get is a handful of games to make a judgement about a guy.

Clausen's a good example. The Panthers declared him their franchise QB of the future when they drafted him... but they certainly don't say anything like that anymore. While it's obvious Hurney still thinks he can turn out okay, by and large it seems that fans have abandoned him and most of the team isn't putting much faith in him. Now, outside of TRD, most of us thought he deserved a chance... When was the tipping point for you? For me, I think by the first Atlanta game I had become completely disillusioned with the idea of him being a franchise guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Catalyst Newbie

Catalyst

Posted
Posted

At least one full season as a starter. We've all seen guys come in for half a season or for a few games and play well (Matt Moore, Derek Anderson, etc.) but it takes more to be a full-time starting QB. In some cases, it may even take more than a season as we have seen guys have whole seasons where they played well and then fell apart afterward.

I don't think there's any real easy or quick answer to this question, TBH.

As for the tipping point with Clausen? Probably the Bears game. They had a QB who was as bad as I had ever seen on the field that day throwing us gift-wrapped INT's and Clausen was just as bad. That's when I kind of said to myself 'yeah... this guy ain't got it.'

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sword Newbie

Sword

Posted
Posted

There are teams that basically bet their future on a player given preseason games and college time and almost no or at least very little play time. Kolb, for instance, would probably have a new team right now if not for the CBA... Others go for backups who have shown glimpses of things. It'd be nice if we had a season to a evaluate a guy, but it's tough. Sometimes all you get is a handful of games to make a judgement about a guy.

Clausen's a good example. The Panthers declared him their franchise QB of the future when they drafted him... but they certainly don't say anything like that anymore. While it's obvious Hurney still thinks he can turn out okay, by and large it seems that fans have abandoned him and most of the team isn't putting much faith in him. Now, outside of TRD, most of us thought he deserved a chance... When was the tipping point for you? For me, I think by the first Atlanta game I had become completely disillusioned with the idea of him being a franchise guy.

I think I remember the Seattle game as showing me he couldn't/wouldn't be a starting QB..at least for a long time..he will probably be Tommy Maddox'd for 10 years and might pop up again on some team and be decent.

I think I'd like to see the QB at least show he can at least be competitive..I knew Josh Freeman had something when he beat the Packers during his rookie season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I think it depends on the body of work, but more importantly the circumstances of the individual games, and supporting cast. I'd say at least 10 games and at least in some of those games the QB shows that he was basically the reason they won. Meaning, he can carry the team, make up for his own faults(and the teams) and adversity if need be.

You've kinda hit on what i like to see... the ability to make up for his own faults and that of the team, and carry it through some adversity. At the same time, I don't expect a QB to be able to do it alone. So it gets pretty complicated pretty quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • TheSpecialJuan
      Explicating the Panthers' Defensiveness

      By TheSpecialJuan · Posted

      I can't wait to go through this analysis 
    • SmokinwithWilly
      Panthers Sign QB Will Grier

      By SmokinwithWilly · Posted

      What's more likely? An entire competant NFL front office (as many here suggest Morgan runs) has watched Bryce struggle week in and week out to perform at the bare minimum of NFL QBs for 3 years and has decided that's the future of this organization, OR our owner who has proven repeatedly he can't keep his nose out of team decision making has declared Bryce is our QB until he decides otherwise, especially given he's the one that drafted him in the first place? 
    • MHS831
      Explicating the Panthers' Defensiveness

      By MHS831 · Posted

      It is time to take a look at the defense.  Without further ado do.... Edge (OLB):  I think we overpaid for Jaelan Phillips, but he is constant pressure with 73 pressures in 2025, ranking 9th in the NFL.  In all, he was the 20th (of 111) rated pass rushing edge in 2025 according to PFF, putting him in the top 20% in the nfl.  With a pair of solid ILBs beside him and if we can get Wharton going, I think the sum of the parts will make him better than he was in Philly.  Furthermore, with second-year pro Princely Umanmielen behind him, I expect him to grow with the tutoring and competition. On the other side, the duo of Nick Scourton and Patrick Jones II is strong, in my view.  Scourton generated 34 total pressures as a pass rusher. That total included 8 sacks, 23 hurries, 3 hits. Against the run, he recorded 28 solo tackles. For a rookie, second round, edge, that is great.  He also forced 1 fumble on the season. Jones was decent in 2025 in just 131 snaps, but he is solid veteran depth.   We seem to lack the elite pass rusher, but this rotational unit will be a big upgrade over last season.  Expect Scourton and Princely to show improvement. While it is unlikely that we add more to edge this draft, you can never have too many pass rushers (well, you can--two sophomores and two veterans is a good mix). Would the Panthers take an edge if one was sitting there? Absolutely. Defensive End:  Derrick Brown is a stud.  I did not notice how dominant he became as a pass rusher.  His PFF pass-rush grade of 72.0 ranked 23rd among 134 qualified interior defensive linemans. His run-defense grade of 66.3 ranked 22nd at the position. He generated 35 total pressures as a pass rusher. That total included 6 sacks, 23 hurries, 6 hits. On the other side:  What the hell?  Tershawn Wharton earned a 40.8 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 127th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemans. His PFF pass-rush grade of 57.0 ranked 95th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemen. His run-defense grade of 34.8 ranked 125th at the position. However, Wharton needs to be situational and we really need a few DEs who can plug and pressure.  LaBryan Ray is an interior defensive lineman for the Carolina Panthers who earned a 45.7 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season.  You cannot tell me that we are not going to add a DE.  In my view, this is a HUGE need that we have not adequately addressed.  There were only 3 DEs in the NFL who played more snaps that Derrick Brown.  We have to give him more blows during the game.  So After Brown, we have 2 other players who need to improve a lot to reach mediocre. Nose Tackle:  Of course, a NT might move out some to help stuff the run at DE opposite Brown, and stats do not always reflect on a NT's actual value.  Bobby Brown III earned a 54.1 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 80th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemen.  His PFF pass-rush grade of 51.1 ranked 126th among 134 qualified interior defensive linemans. His run-defense grade of 57.8 ranked 51st at the position.   Behind him, Cam'Ron Jackson is an  earned a 45.5 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season.   The defensive line is weak, based on 2025 performance rankings in PFF.  After DBrown, they pretty much suck.  These are the guys our ILBs will be counting on. Inside Linebacker:  Devin Lloyd earned a 89.1 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 3rd among 88 qualified linebackers. His PFF coverage grade of 81.1 ranked 3rd among 88 qualified linebackers. His run-defense grade of 83.2 ranked 11th at the position. His pass-rush grade of 82.2 ranked 5th among qualified linebackers.  He's good.  At the moment, beside him is Trevin Wallace  who earned a 55.9 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 57th among 88 qualified linebackers. His PFF coverage grade of 64.5 ranked 25th among 88 qualified linebackers. His run-defense grade of 42.3 ranked 85th at the position. His pass-rush grade of 64.2 ranked 45th among qualified linebackers.  Wallace was best as a coverage LB, and based on my memory, I am not sure he was in the top third, but if PFF says so...however, he was nearly last vs. the run.  We need better to play beside Lloyd.  Bam Morris-Scott earned a 37.6 overall PFF defensive grade. To put that in perspective, I was rated by PFF at 32.3 on my couch.   Cherilus Claudin is the third best ILB on the roster right now. He earned a 59.2 overall PFF defensive grade in just over 200 snaps.  Having lost Rozeboom, the Panthers are very thin behind Lloyd.  Look for a starting-caliber ILB in the draft.  Wallace is not the guy, but he is decent depth. Nickel CB:  Chau Smith-Wade  earned a 57.0 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 79th among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His PFF coverage grade of 57.2 ranked 79th among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His run-defense grade of 55.4 ranked 77th at the position.  For a nickel, he played a lot--garnering over 600 snaps.  Corey Thornton was a pleasant surprise, until he was injured.  However, in just 127 snaps, he was very good, earning a 68.5 overall PFF defensive grade.  I think he can play outside in a pinch, but nickel might be his gig.  I am not sold that Nickel is in good hands, but Thornton is promising.  Smith-Wade is average, and with the experience he has accumulated, we are probably not prioritizing Nickel, but there are some good nickels in the draft. Cornerback:  Michael Jackson should have been in the pro bowl.  He earned a 79.1 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 4th among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His PFF coverage grade of 80.9 ranked 3rd among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His run-defense grade of 67.2 ranked 36th at the position. He recorded 4 interceptions on the season. Jackson broke up 9 passes in coverage. He allowed a 72.9 passer rating when targeted by opposing quarterbacks --SOLID!!  Our second-best CB, Jaycee Horn, was in the pro bowl.  He earned a 57.8 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 76th among 114 qualified corner.backs. His PFF coverage grade of 61.6 ranked 61st among 114 qualified cornerbacks. His run-defense grade of 50.5 ranked 87th at the position.  He recorded 5 interceptions on the season.  Our CBs had NINE interceptions in 2025.  It is doubtful they duplicate that figure, but Jackson was our best CB.   We are thin at CB, but the two we put out there are solid.  Nickel, at this time, is "meh," but both are developing and should improve.  A great draft for Nickel.  The Panthers will add a CB somehow. Safety:  For now, Trevon Moehrig is as advertised--above average vs. the run, below average in coverage, making him average. He earned a 64.3 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 50th among 98 qualified safeties. His PFF coverage grade of 55.3 ranked 64th among 98 qualified safeties. His run-defense grade of 73.5 ranked 37th at the position.  Lathan Ransom got some valuable experience in 2025, getting in on 330 plays or so.  He earned a 62.9 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 56th among 98 qualified safeties.  (Average, not bad for a day 3 rookie) His PFF coverage grade of 55.8 ranked 63rd among 98 qualified safeties. His run-defense grade of 85.1 ranked 4th at the position.  A pure strong safety, if you ask me.  Nick Scott  earned a 67.8 overall PFF defensive grade in the 2025 season, 36th among 98 qualified safeties. His PFF coverage grade of 67.3 ranked 31st among 98 qualified safeties. His run-defense grade of 69.3 ranked 56th at the position.  Expect a draft pick at FS.  Demani Richardson is a safety for the Carolina Panthers who earned a 71.5 overall PFF defensive grade n 29 plays.  Nothing to see here.  Isaiah Simmons is probably more special teams than defensive player.   Overall:  We are thin on defense.  No real depth at CB, S, and DE/NT.  However, we have 5 starters who are pro bowl level players (D. Brown, Lloyd, Jackson, Horn, and Phillips--and I might throw Scourton in on that pile for the sixth potential pro bowler).  We are weak at NT, and if Wharton does not step up, DE.  Funny, I see Edge as our strength (and we really don't have a sack artist) and I love our starting CBs.  Moehrig is making too much to be average.   Expect:  In the draft, I think we have to draft a DT.  Having done this, I am not sure that we go after a S when we have such glaring needs at other positions.  We could upgrade at nickel and give the CB room more depth.  OLB?  Wallace is decent depth, and he could start in a pinch.   DE is our biggest need.  The answer could be on the roster?            
×
×
  • Create New...