What does Cam have to do

[mav1234]

F u kjd for making me look like a hugger ;)

[KJDaniel31]

Yea that's the type of success I'm talking about:rolleyes: Not the undefeated season or BCS Championship, Heisman Trophy, Maxwell Award, Walter Camp Award, Davey O'Brien Award, Manning Award, Associated Press College Football Player of the Year, and First-team All-American.

Passing Stats

AUB185com 280att 66.1 pct 2854yds 30td 7 ints

Blinn204com 336att 61pct 2833yds 22td 5ints

So those stats are the type of success you want me to look for in a player? There have been MANY QB's who won a ton of games, had great stats and won a ton of awards.

Vince Young had amazing stats, won a national championship and won a ton of post season awards. His stats were even hindered by quite a bit of NFL talent he had at RB. He is what I said he was before the draft....a solid backup QB in the NFL.

Cam will likely be the same.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Honestly, I think Cam will kind of be this franchise's Donovan Mcnabb, in the aspect that no matter what he does while he is here, people have already predetermined that they don't like him, for whatever reason, and will spend his entire career trying to scrutinize him over every stupid little thing. It's sad that people will let their own pride keep them from pulling for a player on their team, but that is just the nature of some humans I suppose.

They would rather say "AHAHA I AM TEH RIGHT HE IS TEH SUK!" than "Cam Newton led us to a Super Bowl Championship!"

Some people's ego trumps everything, sadly.

I started pulling for him as soon as he held that Panthers jersey up. Some people started complaining. That's the difference between a real fan and a bandwagoneer.

[ncmonzta]

So those stats are the type of success you want me to look for in a player? There have been MANY QB's who won a ton of games, had great stats and won a ton of awards.

Vince Young had amazing stats, won a national championship and won a ton of post season awards. His stats were even hindered by quite a bit of NFL talent he had at RB. He is what I said he was before the draft....a solid backup QB in the NFL.

Cam will likely be the same.

So that's it... one guy? A guy who probably could be more successful than most QBs if it weren't for his mentality which is nothing like Cam's. Being simple minded will get you nowhere. The stats were just to show you he's not a running QB. A running Qb would have equal the amount a rushing yards if not more than or at least more rushing attempts than passing. He ran mostly because the coach called plays that required him to run.

[antame]

the only problem I have with that reasoning KJD is that it implies that Cam can't do any differently. There's a decent chance he can. I'll see how the season goes.

I also know he's going to run as a pro either way, but that doesn't mean he'll be running like he did in college.

Well said. I think a "run first" QB is always going to suck in the NFL and I'll hold to that until proven otherwise, but I don't think Cam is that guy, and from preseason showings it doesn't look like we want him to be.

[mav1234]

That may be true, CG, but a lot of us are just reserving judgment right now because he has played so little. I think it's too early to decide the fan base will forever have a large portion that "doesn't like him." Most of us have nothing against him personally at all, we just want to see him actually play in the NFL before we fall head over heels for him :)

[KJDaniel31]

Now we are getting down to it. And I knew we would end up here. You see, I remember a couple of days ago reading one of your posts in which you said something along the lines of "I want to puke every time I see Cam take the field". And I apologize that I do not have the exact quote.

This has nothing to do with Cam's running, or Locker's passing or NFL history. You do not like the individual you perceive Cam to be.

I could respect that, if you would just come out and say it, but not when you try to hide behind "facts and logic".

Again, you try to latch on to one thing and divorce it from all my other posts on the subject. It gets you some pie from those who don't read the whole discussion, but wouldn't you rather just tell the truth?

I do get nauseous when he takes the field. It is because of the following:

1. I dont like him nor respect him personally. I personally believe he is a con artist.

2. I dont like the way he plays the QB position. I do not believe it is a successful recipe for our team.

3. I am disgusted that we wasted a massive asset in the #1 pick, when great players were available. I would have loved Darius/Petersen/many others.

4. I am insulted that many Panthers fans blindly drink the koolaid and defend the selection by ignoring the obvious history.

Now, where have you seen me say anything to the effect of "I only dislike Cam Newton because of (X)"?

It appears this is simply ANOTHER example of you finding ONE quote/point, and attempting to make it someones COMPLETE argument. Why don't you just want to discuss someone's true stance rather than sink to these tactics?

[teeray]

Great...so do I. My argument all along is that this stat is a BY PRODUCT of these abilities. Guys don't run with this regularity unless their abilities call for it.

I will give you one more chance .....can you find ANY player who ran with anything close to the regularity that Cam did in college who had playoff success?

Admitting no doesn't mean you give up on him. It just means you are honest! You can still believe that Cam will be the first....I simply do not share that opinion/faith.

Honestly I haven't even tried to look something like that up. Mainly because it doesn't really matter to me.

I don't know if I can say it any clearer. I am a strong believer in avoiding simplistic formulas to evaluate or project any player. Especially when those formulas are based on simple stats that are basically irrelevant to evaluating QBs. Stats are good reference points but are a very small percentage of what you look for in projecting QBs to the NFL.

I would say however that taking a guy that has 3,000 yards passing and trying to jam him into a box of "running QB' is ridiculous IMO.

[Cat'sGrowl]

That may be true, CG, but a lot of us are just reserving judgment right now because he has played so little. I think it's too early to decide the fan base will forever have a large portion that "doesn't like him." Most of us have nothing against him personally at all, we just want to see him actually play in the NFL before we fall head over heels for him :)

Of course. It's obvious to tell who is who though.

[KJDaniel31]

what would you do if I told you that a certain player played 12 games and had only 9 carries a game compared to 28 passes? would that player be a "running quarterback"? No, right?

now what if that player is Cam Newton? Does he became a "running quarterback" because his next season he ran a ton more?

In Major College Football, or are we going to go all the way back to 7th grade to get stats that back us up?!

[KJDaniel31]

So that's it... one guy? A guy who probably could be more successful than most QBs if it weren't for his mentality which is nothing like Cam's. Being simple minded will get you nowhere. The stats were just to show you he's not a running QB. A running Qb would have equal the amount a rushing yards if not more than or at least more rushing attempts than passing. He ran mostly because the coach called plays that required him to run.

So you haven't read any of this thread then, have you?

Cam rush attempts are almost equal his pass attempts. I can't think of a single starting NFL QB who ran MORE than he threw in college. I also can't think of a single starting NFL QB who ran nearly the same % as he threw.

So by your definition, he is a running QB. Or is the fact that he averaged 1 pass attempts more than rush attempts tip the scales for you?

[frash.exe]

Fact: Cam's stats his one year at Auburn doesn't define him as a running QB in his pro career, BEFORE HIS PRO CAREER EVEN TAKES PLACE

the end

[KJDaniel31]

Honestly I haven't even tried to look something like that up. Mainly because it doesn't really matter to me.

I don't know if I can say it any clearer. I am a strong believer in avoiding simplistic formulas to evaluate or project any player. Especially when those formulas are based on simple stats that are basically irrelevant to evaluating QBs. Stats are good reference points but are a very small percentage of what you look for in projecting QBs to the NFL.

I would say however that taking a guy that has 3,000 yards passing and trying to jam him into a box of "running QB' is ridiculous IMO.

This is your stance....the only problem is that you really dont want to look for such a player because you know you will not find one. If so, why not just admit it (do 5 minutes of research to ensure you know what you are arguing?) and move on with your argument?

To clarify, even if a clear and available stat (such as rush attempts/pass attempts) shows that among the 120 or so NCAA starting QB's, ZERO with near a 1 to 1 have any success in the NFL you would ignore such a precedent?

You really think this means NOTHING?

[teeray]

In Major College Football, or are we going to go all the way back to 7th grade to get stats that back us up?!

Well for the purposes of your argument I don't see why that matters. You implied that he was a run first QB based on his run/pass ratio. After all we aren't talking about completion percentage or passing tds, we are talking about run/pass ratio in terms of rather or not he is a run first QB.

I guess now it is time to backpedal again and change the rules one more time huh? :rofl: