Penn State...what did Paterno know?

[Montsta]

One question that has not been addressed.

If McQueary and Calhoun saw the atrocious acts that they outlined in the indictment (and I assume that they did), why did NEITHER go to the police.

McQueary reported it to his superior.....which is exactly what Paterno did.

I am not excusing Paterno's non-action....he SHOULD have done more. But, McQueary seems to be getting a total pass....and he ACTUALLY witnessed the action, and basically did nothing about it.

If I walked in on what he says he saw, I would have damn sure done something about it right then. I would have gone after Sandusky....not just turned and walk away.

You can be certain that I am not giving McQueary a pass. McQueary and Calhoun both should have gone to the authorities the moment they realized nothing had been done by the people they reported the acts to. I think Calhoun, who was visibly upset and shaken by what he saw, didn't do more because he was afraid he was going to get fired, as they were all new or temp employees on the janitorial staff outside of one guy.

That being said, there is not a job on this planet, or any other, that I wouldn't readily risk giving up to report something like that. The allegations are horrific enough in this case, but the instinct of self-preservation by everybody that had witnessed these things personally or had been told about them brings it to a whole other level of sickness in my opinion. My wife knows I'm a selfish asshole, yet always tells me I'm a good man, perhaps it's because if I was McQueary or Calhoun I would have immediately beat the sh*t out of Sandusky, and taken his bloody body to the police station doorstep with the boy at my side. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

[Kitten Diver]

No this sick ordeal obviously happened. Everybody keeps saying Paterno should have immediately fired Sandusky but Sandusky was not his employee. Sandusky is clearly a sick pervert but it's hard to say what JP should have or should have not done from the testimony in the indictment. I don't know what university policy was, I don't know if it was followed. I do know there was a cover up but there is no way to tell from the information we have who is responsible.

These kind of stories get people into an emotional tizzy but uncovering the actual truth is much more complicated and nuanced than it seems on the surface. I'm talking about Paterno and the University here not the creep who is clearly guilty.

Paterno found out about the sexual acts ocurring in HIS locker room! maybe he couldnt fire him again, but he could CALL THE POLICE and NOT LET HIM IN HIS LOCKER ROOM!!! Thats all we saying dawg.

Also...You PennState alums do realize that your blind obedience to this kid rape factory is literally making your school look like a ridiculous inbred cult?

[Kitten Diver]

Who is it you think we're talking about?

What facts do you disagree with? Do you think this entire ordeal is based on hearsay? There's a 23 page indictment with lots of info if you care to be any more specific with your references.

Youre in the right on this one bro. He'll wake up sometime.

[fjblair]

A ten year old boy was anally raped in Joe Paterno's team locker room. It was brought to Paterno's attention as sexual activity in some capacity. It took nine years after that for Sandusky to be in handcuffs. Would you agree that to be fact?

Yes that's exactly what happened from what I can see.

[fjblair]

One question that has not been addressed.

If McQueary and Calhoun saw the atrocious acts that they outlined in the indictment (and I assume that they did), why did NEITHER go to the police.

McQueary reported it to his superior.....which is exactly what Paterno did.

I am not excusing Paterno's non-action....he SHOULD have done more. But, McQueary seems to be getting a total pass....and he ACTUALLY witnessed the action, and basically did nothing about it.

If I walked in on what he says he saw, I would have damn sure done something about it right then. I would have gone after Sandusky....not just turned and walk away.

This is what I'm referring to when I say we don't know exactly how the events transpired and the only true culprit that is easy to identify at this point is the creep.

[fjblair]

Umm, yes he was.

Umm, yes we do.

Might want to check your facts.

[Dpantherman]

So you're confirming what we already know. Paterno lied.

The GA has nothing to gain by coming clean. Paterno has lots to gain by claiming ignorance.

Well thats what I was getting at. SOMEONE is lying, and thats just one reason why Paterno had to go.

[fjblair]

Just read the entire indictment and the facts that we do know to be true, as testified by Paterno in front of a Grand Jury, are that he was told by Mike McQueery at a meeting at his house that he had seen something going on that was inappropriate between Sandusky and a boy, estimated to be 10-13 years old. Now you can believe MM, or you can believe JP on the exact verbage of what he saw, but even if you believe the less-graphic version testified by Paterno, it would be cause enough to make sure that an investigation is opened up IMMEDIATELY, and that Sandusky is banned from campus until the investigation is concluded. This is not a witch hunt. JoePa knew something inappropriate had happened between Sandusky and a child, and did the bare minimum to address it and then wiped his hands of the matter. Those are facts as presented in the indictment by a grand jury stemming from testimony of person(s) directly involved with the case.

This is not a juicy internet scandal that people are watching. It is the atrocious acts of a souless monster who enticed underprivileged boys with promises of sporting events and sporting gear, while he was in a DIRECT position to protect them.

What makes it worse, is there were people in a position of power who could have stopped this as early as 1998, but certainly no later than 2002, and they all either turned a blind eye, or did just enough to absolve themselves of criminally illegal wrongdoing.

The janitor, Jim Calhoun, was so distraught over what he had witnessed that several different persons thought he was going to have a heart attack on the spot. This from a man that fought in Korea and saw "guts spilled out" and dismembered bodies. This man is now in a nursing home with dementia. Not saying the incidents are related, but who knows what kind of toll this thing has had on this guys mind for the past nine years.

This isn't just some juicy scandal that people are salivating over. This is the most deplorable allegation of crimes that could ever hit any institution, and what I see as criminal indifference by people in a position to stop it.

I agree with everything in this post. Everything. I'm not defending anybody but I don't have teh answers as to who "opens investigations", who "bans" professors from campus? How do you know JoPa washed his hands and skipped down the field? Who knows what he felt, what he was told and what he thought was being done about it?

[Dpantherman]

So you dont think Joe Pa could have said "I don't want this guy at our practices?" The COACH controls whos on the practice field and who isn't. And he let that monster back on.

[fjblair]

Paterno found out about the sexual acts ocurring in HIS locker room! maybe he couldnt fire him again, but he could CALL THE POLICE and NOT LET HIM IN HIS LOCKER ROOM!!! Thats all we saying dawg.

Also...You PennState alums do realize that your blind obedience to this kid rape factory is literally making your school look like a ridiculous inbred cult?

I hear you man. I'm not a Penn State fan so I don't have a dog in the hunt.

[fjblair]

So you dont think Joe Pa could have said "I don't want this guy at our practices?" The COACH controls whos on the practice field and who isn't. And he let that monster back on.

Don't know all the details but it looks indefensible.

[4Corners]

I couldn't make it past the second page. that whole anal sex in the penn state locker room made me dry heave.

[BBQ&Beer]

Yeah I asked about accreditation earlier in the thread. So there are 2 of us that see this as a possibility, since we know that the admins knew and did nothing.

I've worked with SACS (Southern Association of Colleges & Schools) several times & while its on the table, I highly doubt that particular action will be taken. 1. It would wreck the degrees for current students & might go retroactive to 02 (possibly 98). 2. It would create chaos because all profs with tenure would likely leave meaning the accreditation association would have to help find them jobs. Also, non-tenured would have to be helped due to the absolute fuggin plunge in enrollment (not sure if MSACS would help though). Last but not least, the money sunk into buildings & equipment would likely go to waste.

Its more likely that they will force the admin, regents, & trustees to step down.

[Carolina Husker]

One question that has not been addressed.

If McQueary and Calhoun saw the atrocious acts that they outlined in the indictment (and I assume that they did), why did NEITHER go to the police.

McQueary reported it to his superior.....which is exactly what Paterno did.

I am not excusing Paterno's non-action....he SHOULD have done more. But, McQueary seems to be getting a total pass....and he ACTUALLY witnessed the action, and basically did nothing about it.

If I walked in on what he says he saw, I would have damn sure done something about it right then. I would have gone after Sandusky....not just turned and walk away.

I understand what you're saying, but it needs to be mentioned that people aren't letting McQueary get a pass. He's getting death threats from people who hate that he let Sandusky go and those who think he let Penn State fall into this mess. He's not going to coach this weekend. It's not because PSU didn't know what to do. It's because 1. they needed to check the legality of firing him because of Whistle Blower laws; 2. they want him to cooperate, and firing him immediately lessens the chance he'll be willing to help them going forward.

Also, 95% of the people interested in this story had a least some idea who JoePa was before this story, and probably less than 1% knew who knew McQueary. This will eventually focus itself on McQueary, but right now it's on JoePa because that's a more interesting villain.

McQueary is a piece of poo for many reasons. I make the argument that Paterno is the scumbag here because it's his culture that allowed this to happen at PSU, not McQueary's. Check the timeline. It's chalk full of instances that just scream of cover-up, and don't think for a second Joe wasn't the central figure in every discussion about how they were going to make this go away.

Might want to check your facts.

Nothing personal, and I mean this in the nicest way, but don't know what the fvck you're talking about.

Is your central argument that Sandusky was a professor and not a coach, therefore it wasn't within JoePa's jurisdiction to fire him? Because not only is that dumb and untrue, it's completely meaningless. No one is mad that Sandusky wasn't properly fired. THEY'RE PISSED BECAUSE HE WAS A KNOWN PEDERAST PARADING AROUND CAMPUS FOR 14 YEARS and no one told the police.

So pardon me, but don't concern yourself with my understanding of the facts when you clearly can't speak intelligently about the subject.