Football Outsiders updated Panthers statistics

[Marguide]

1.That's points, not yards, right?

And....

2.ypp differential at an even turnover margin = points differential. SAME THING!!!

Points differential: 26.3/ 21.1 =1.24

Ypp differential(even turnover margin): 18.9/15.22 = 1.24:D

:rofl:You all just wanna keep arguing with me to be proven wrong 1 million different ways?

Dude, you are making this way too hard.

All of that nonsense above, or Points Scored - Points Allowed.

There is no need to be esoteric just to try to make yourself look smart.

[mav1234]

YPP is only influenced by special teams yards, because that decreases the field the offense has to work with. it does not directly account for them at all. The reason YPP is terrible as a purely offensive metric is it uses the offense's total yards divided by the team's total points, and both of these factors are heavily influenced by things nearly completely out of the offense's control, like:

1) special teams play

2) defensive scores

3) turnovers

So for simplicity's sake...

Go to NFL.com: http://www.nfl.com/teams/carolinapan...stics?team=CAR

Total Offensive yards = 3600

400 yards per game

Total Points Scored = 192(it includes a safety)

21.4 points per game(with a safety from our defense)

21.1 Total Points scored by our "true total offense" per game(offense +special teams offense or punt/kick returner + FG/PAT unit scores +)

Carolina has not scored 192 points this year. We've scored 190. Unless your argument is that safeties are not tallied in final scores or something.

First four games:

21, 23, 16, 29 points. Total: 89 points

27, 17, 33, 21 points. Total: 98 points

Last game: 3 points

89 + 98 + 3 = 190, not 192.

the best part of your post is that a punt return for a TD is not 14.2 YPP, because punt return yardage isn't even calculated in YPP.

[mav1234]

That's why YPP is the best. Because it does account for those yards and includes points and turnovers and schedule. I promise you.

but it doesn't.

I broke down two entire teams to show you how it didn't. I just did another Panthers game. I have tried to explain to you how this stat you love so much works but you simply ignore what I say.

The only way that YPP accounts for yards the special teams generates is that it decreases the size of the field the offense has to travel for a TD. Let's say a kick is downed at the 20. 80 yard TD drive. YPP = 11.4. Now let's say that a kick is returned from the 20 to the 50. Now the offense only has to travel 50 yards for a TD. If they do, that would make the YPP 7.14. It doesn't matter that these are only single drive examples; they illustrate how YPP is calculated perfectly. Now let's say that the reason that kick happened is because our defense got a safety but our offense hadn't had a drive yet. Up to that point in the game, under the first situation, the YPP would be 80/9=8.9, whereas the YPP for the second situation would be 50/9=5.6. Special teams yardage is not built into YPP but special teams and defensive plays heavily influence the end values. The worse your defense and special teams play in terms of the field position battle, the higher your YPP has to become as a result if you score any points at all!

All it is is the number of yards the offense has generated (Sack adjusted passing yards + rushing yards) divided by the points the team has scored.

That's it. It says nothing about punt return yards. Or the hypothetical distance traveled by an offense from the 0 yard line. Or the distance gained from a touchback. None of that. All it does is say, "ok, how many yards has your offense gained? Check. How many points did the team scores? Check. divide those two."

YPP itself is heavily influenced by special teams and defense because both of them will decrease the field an offense has to work with. Teams with low YPP typically have decent defenses and special teams units along with a good offense.

[teeray]

It's not hard to grasp! Stop fuging arguing with me.

I'm not arguing with you, I am correcting you. Big difference :tongue:

[TheRealDeal]

This thread is like one of those Tosh videos where you know the outcome is some drunk pregnant naked girl throwing up all over herself but you just can't look away.

[PantherProwler]

:nonod: Please learn how your favorite stat is calculated.

Take our last game for example. Tennessee according to www.teamrankings.com (your sourced site for YPP) had a YPP last week against us of 12.8.

They had 211 passing yards, 172 rushing yards, and 103 punt return yards.

But YPP is 211+172 (383) divided by the total points scored (30) The punt returns yardage doesn't count toward YPP. Otherwise their YPP would have been 16.2 if you added that extra 103 total yards, not 12.8. So when you say stuff like:

You are showing that you don't even understand YPP.

This is why are you are terrible with stats. You tell others they don't understand, when in reality you do not understand how they work.

Ypp is not calculated per drive. It can be explained by drive, but that's not how you calculate it.

[chef17]

Can someone please explain to me how a stat that includes defense touchdowns can be called an offense efficiency? A defense recovering a fumble in the endzone for a TD helps YPP without the offense doing anything. Someone please explain how that works. K thanks

[chef17]

:nonod: Please learn how your favorite stat is calculated.

Take our last game for example. Tennessee according to www.teamrankings.com (your sourced site for YPP) had a YPP last week against us of 12.8.

They had 211 passing yards, 172 rushing yards, and 103 punt return yards.

But YPP is 211+172 (383) divided by the total points scored (30) The punt returns yardage doesn't count toward YPP. Otherwise their YPP would have been 16.2 if you added that extra 103 total yards, not 12.8. So when you say stuff like:

You are showing that you don't even understand YPP.

This is why are you are terrible with stats. You tell others they don't understand, when in reality you do not understand how they work.

Ypp is not calculated per drive. It can be explained by drive, but that's not how you calculate it.

Umm where did he say anything about per drive?

[PantherProwler]

Can someone please explain to me how a stat that includes defense touchdowns can be called an offense efficiency? A defense recovering a fumble in the endzone for a TD helps YPP without the offense doing anything. Someone please explain how that works. K thanks

There are TWO numbers. Two separate stats. One for offense. One for defense. Man you guys have trouble with simple sentences. I swear...

[chef17]

There are TWO numbers. Two separate stats. One for offense. One for defense. Man you guys have trouble with simple sentences. I swear...

The number for offense takes offensive yards and divides by TOTAL points. That includes points scored by the defense. Man you have trouble with simple concepts I swear

[PantherProwler]

YPP is only influenced by special teams yards, because that decreases the field the offense has to work with. it does not directly account for them at all. The reason YPP is terrible as a purely offensive metric is it uses the offense's total yards divided by the team's total points, and both of these factors are heavily influenced by things nearly completely out of the offense's control, like:

1) special teams play

2) defensive scores

3) turnovers

Carolina has not scored 192 points this year. We've scored 190. Unless your argument is that safeties are not tallied in final scores or something.

First four games:

21, 23, 16, 29 points. Total: 89 points

27, 17, 33, 21 points. Total: 98 points

Last game: 3 points

89 + 98 + 3 = 190, not 192.

the best part of your post is that a punt return for a TD is not 14.2 YPP, because punt return yardage isn't even calculated in YPP.

mav I thought you were smarter than this.

If my offense drives to the 50 yard line and doesn't score those yards add up towards your ypp inefficiency. They are useless but they are counted. On the next drive if it travels the entire field from its 1 yard line it traveled a total of 100. But you add the 50. So:

150 yards/ 7 points = 21.42 yards per point. Spans 2 drives. But you can think of it as one long scoring drive. And I can show you why too.

Offensive turnovers has the biggest impact on its own efficiency. Not special teams. Special teams helps it. So do takeaways. Each time an offense doesn't score on a drive it kills its own ypp.

And a kick/punt return is not worth 14.2. It's worth 16.67. A touchdown is worth 6 points. Likewise a touchdown is worth 100 yards.

100/6 = 16.67(for the special teams offense for example)

Average offensive ypp is 16.67(this number is a constant ypp ratio for a 6 point score).

Half a field: 50/3 = 16.67. A FG is worth 50 yards.

Now, a 7 point score is worth 14.2 with help from another side of the offense: PAT unit. It adds 1 point.

So a touchdown + PAT is 14.2 or a punt return + PAT is worth 14.2. Not a kick-off/punt return. Those are only worth 6. But they are both worth only 100 yards.

Which is why the average ypp is 200/13 =15.4(This is actually the exact league average)

An a kick-off return for a 7 point score is more efficient than the average: 14.28. To it improves a team's offensive ypp. And that's the entire idea. The other offensive teams helps your total scoring offense out by increasing efficiency. Likewise a special teams units + PAT unit helps an offense out by giving its starting position at the 20 yard line:

80/7 = 11.42ypp

But an offense most definitely hurts itself each time it doesn't fuging score, or turns over the ball...whether on downs, punts, interceptions or fumbles. What the hell is wrong with you guys?

And yes when a punt returner returns it for a touchdown the yards are calculated because they scored. It's part of scoring offense. But it's not how Teeray tried to do it. LOL(it uses more than elementary school math). It just uses the constant drive ypp ratio for a 7 point score and 1 extra drive: 14.28.

But here's proof of it the easy way:

100(special teams punt return yards) + 80 +150= 330/ 21 points

330/21 = 15.7

C= ypp constant for 7 points and 1 drive

C= Field/7

C= 100/7

C=14.28

game ypp =(C + drives ypp)/ number of drives(including the constant means you add 1 drive)

game ypp = (14.28 + 80/7+150/7)/ 3

game ypp = (14.28 + 11.42 +21.42)/3

game ypp = 47.12/3

game ypp = 15.7

Now you can do that any way you want. They are included as a ratio. They have to be! SO for the last time. EVERYTHING IS INCLUDED AND ACCOUNTED FOR IN YPP. EVERYTHING. It's just one big math formula. And it tracks the entire freaking game. All of it. Every single inch of a yard. Where it came from. Every penalty. It can all be explained by freaking math, algebra, calculus and statistics. It's is the ultimate measurement. And that's all football is. One big chess game of numbers, possible moves and points.

But this one long complicated ass way of basically doing this "total offense yards"/ "scoring offense".

Total offensive efficiency 400 yards per game/ 21.1 points. = 18.9 = 25th.

PS: NFL.com has 21.4 ppg listed. 21.4*9 = 192. So take it up with them. I went off of their official number.

[mav1234]

This is why are you are terrible with stats. You tell others they don't understand, when in reality you do not understand how they work.

Ypp is not calculated per drive. It can be explained by drive, but that's not how you calculate it.

It doesn't matter if it's calculated "per drive" or not. It's calculated the same way...

80 yard TD drive resulting in a td = 11.4 YPP

Three 80 yard TD drives across a game all resulting in a TD = 11.4 YPP

Gaining 240 total yards on offense (net passing + rushing) and scoring 21 points = 11.4 YPP.

[chef17]

mav I thought you were smarter than this.

If my offense drives to the 50 yard line and doesn't score those yards add up towards your ypp inefficiency. They are useless but they are counted. On the next drive if it travels the entire field from its 1 yard line it traveled a total of 100.

:rofl: What the fug?

[PantherProwler]

:rofl: What the fug?

Was that too difficult for you?