Williams flat out doesn't fit

[panthers55]

No one on this board has disagreed with that. RB by committee is how you run in today's NFL....

Paying 2 first rounders featured RB money isn't a RB by committee.....it is over investing.

Doubt LT would say what we are doing is how you build a RB committee

All opinion on your part. Thomas said you need 2 quality backs not what round you will or should find them in. We found ours in the first round. Other folks get lucky and find then in later rounds or get them in free agency. There isn't one way to do or even a right way. Plenty of teams have drafted backs in the first round and have had them bust. Ki-Jana Carter, Ron Dayne, Blair Thomas, Chris Thomas, Paul Palmer, Jarrod Bunch, Rashad Salaam, and on and on. All guys who were first round picks and busted. Even for us Biakabatuka was largely a bust. There have been tons of lower round draft picks which were busts as well. Instead of bitching about picking too high we ought to be glad we found 2 and that both have been productive for years given the average lifespan is 3 years. I guess some folks are always going to be half empty kind of guys and always see the negative in everything.

And don't waste my time with a list of guys who were lower round picks who succeeded because my list of lower round busts would be 10 times as long. Plus it misses the point. We found our guys no matter what the round and have paid them. No amount of bitching or whining changes that or makes it better or worse. It has now been almost 2 years since we paid Williams and you're still bitching. How long until you stop??? From what I can tell it will be never. Give us a break and practice the serenity prayer so at least we get some serenity.

[CRA]

All opinion on your part. Thomas said you need 2 quality backs not what round you will or should find them in. We found ours in the first round. Other folks get lucky and find then in later rounds or get them in free agency. There isn't one way to do or even a right way. Plenty of teams have drafted backs in the first round and have had them bust. Ki-Jana Carter, Ron Dayne, Blair Thomas, Chris Thomas, Paul Palmer, Jarrod Bunch, Rashad Salaam, and on and on. All guys who were first round picks and busted. Even for us Biakabatuka was largely a bust. There have been tons of lower round draft picks which were busts as well. Instead of bitching about picking too high we ought to be glad we found 2 and that both have been productive for years given the average lifespan is 3 years. I guess some folks are always going to be half empty kind of guys and always see the negative in everything.

And don't waste my time with a list of guys who were lower round picks who succeeded because my list of lower round busts would be 10 times as long. Plus it misses the point. We found our guys no matter what the round and have paid them. No amount of bitching or whining changes that or makes it better or worse. It has now been almost 2 years since we paid Williams and you're still bitching. How long until you stop??? From what I can tell it will be never. Give us a break and practice the serenity prayer so at least we get some serenity.

My opinion yes....but supported by what the league is doing. Committes have formed bc teams got tired of living and dying off of one RB and also bc they were tired of investing big money into a position where you can get production relatively cheap and easy. Teams now use role players....compliment their primary RB with a cheaper RB who excels in what that RB lacks....and gives them a break.

No team in NFL history has done what we did with our backfield. That isn't an opinion.

it isn't bitching as much as it is pointing out something on our team that doesn't make sense....and it gets brought up repeatedly bc it constantly shows itself as a poor or odd decision.

You take the Jake Delhomme approach with what we have done with our backfield. Stubbornly claiming it was a good move simply bc the front office did it.

[panthers55]

My opinion yes....but supported by what the league is doing. Committes have formed bc teams got tired of living and dying off of one RB and also bc they were tired of investing big money into a position where you can get production relatively cheap and easy. Teams now use role players....compliment their primary RB with a cheaper RB who excels in what that RB lacks....and gives them a break.

No team in NFL history has done what we did with our backfield. That isn't an opinion.

it isn't bitching as much as it is pointing out something on our team that doesn't make sense....and it gets brought up repeatedly bc it constantly shows itself as a poor or odd decision.

You take the Jake Delhomme approach with what we have done with our backfield. Stubbornly claiming it was a good move simply bc the front office did it.

First of all the two back system has only been in the league for a few years so this whole "no one in the history of the NFL" is a red herring argument. In fact when we went with it with Stewart and Williams we were considered an innovator and early adopter of the system. For that matter how many teams draft a quarterback in the second round and draft another one with the first overall pick, the very next year. I guess that means that drafting Newton was a mistake as well, right. Maybe that is a first in the NFL too.

As for a team having only one good back and a bunch of role players, that is fine until your best back goes down and you are screwed. Then you have role player backs who can't handle the load.

And yes it is bitching and has been for almost 2 years. You derail almost any thread with your obsession about Williams and most of us are tired of us. And instead of all of us avoiding every thread you make, I for one would prefer you man up and stop the whining.

As for my feeling about Williams, I didn't say it was a good or bad move, I have said it is what we did for better or worse. Evaluations of good or bad for me are best made after the fact once the dust has settled and since they are both playing it is too soon to know what the ultimate verdict will be. But then again I prefer to wait until a few games into the regular season to decide where we stand as a team. Fault me for not rushing in where only fools dare to tread.

[Greg Schiano]

I'll trade you guys for Williams. How's a conditional 2014 7th rounder sound?

[panthers55]

I'll trade you guys for Williams. How's a conditional 2014 7th rounder sound?

So are you going to still be posting here once Tampa gets beaten this week by the Giants. They now have film on the team and will make the necessary corrections just like we will do next time. Plus they will see what it is like in a hostile stadium instead of playing at home. Enjoy it for a few more days then disappear like all the other trolls.

[Greg Schiano]

So are you going to still be posting here once Tampa gets beaten this week by the Giants. They now have film on the team and will make the necessary corrections just like we will do next time. Plus they will see what it is like in a hostile stadium instead of playing at home. Enjoy it for a few more days then disappear like all the other trolls.

I may or may not have given some film from when we taped your practices at IMG to the Saints*. You may or may not need good luck with that.

[CRA]

First of all the two back system has only been in the league for a few years so this whole "no one in the history of the NFL" is a red herring argument. In fact when we went with it with Stewart and Williams we were considered an innovator and early adopter of the system. For that matter how many teams draft a quarterback in the second round and draft another one with the first overall pick, the very next year. I guess that means that drafting Newton was a mistake as well, right. Maybe that is a first in the NFL too.

As for a team having only one good back and a bunch of role players, that is fine until your best back goes down and you are screwed. Then you have role player backs who can't handle the load.

And yes it is bitching and has been for almost 2 years. You derail almost any thread with your obsession about Williams and most of us are tired of us. And instead of all of us avoiding every thread you make, I for one would prefer you man up and stop the whining.

As for my feeling about Williams, I didn't say it was a good or bad move, I have said it is what we did for better or worse. Evaluations of good or bad for me are best made after the fact once the dust has settled and since they are both playing it is too soon to know what the ultimate verdict will be. But then again I prefer to wait until a few games into the regular season to decide where we stand as a team. Fault me for not rushing in where only fools dare to tread.

Please....it is a passing league and will continue moving that direction with the rules and league flat out wanting it to be that way. Teams do not want to invest in their backfield like Carolina has done....if it was so wise there would at least be one other example to give. It isn't a red herring argument....

Trying to compare what we have done with our backfield to drafting Clausen and then Newton.....sums it up....you are so desperate to try to make a point you will throw anything at a wall. Anyone who reads that suggestion will tell you that ain't gonna stick. LOL.

The teams winning Superbowls haven't been screwed....so again I use the league to support my opinion.....not sure what you are using.

And if you don't want to here about.....don't enter and post continuously in a thread clearly about Williams. Newsflash....you spend just as much time nearly on the subject as I do. <gasp> The bulk of my posts about the issue are in back and forths with you..as you are the one who is so adamant that investing in the backfield in this manner was without a doubt correct.

[MaineManPanther]

there are points to be made on your side. However argument that " No one is doing x so x must be wrong" isn't sound. That automatically assumes that anything a specific team is doing that the league isn't mean that it's wrong.

Right or wrong is not determined by what the rest of the crowd is doing.

[TheRed]

Yeah who the hell does Deangelo think he is. He shouldn't need an o line to block for him, lazy bastard.

[CRA]

there are points to be made on your side. However argument that " No one is doing x so x must be wrong" isn't sound. That automatically assumes that anything a specific team is doing that the league isn't mean that it's wrong.

Right or wrong is not determined by what the rest of the crowd is doing.

No, but the crowd can be a dang good indication...

If everyone is running and screaming coming out of a building......you might want to think twice before entering.

[panthers55]

No, but the crowd can be a dang good indication...

If everyone is running and screaming coming out of a building......you might want to think twice before entering.

Until you find out they are having a great party and that is why they are running and screaming and having fun. You on the other hand would continue to tell everyone that the building has to be on fire because in other places in the past when people ran out of a building screaming it was because of a fire. And we all know that if other people do things then we should be doing the same thing.

[panthers55]

And if you don't want to here about.....don't enter and post continuously in a thread clearly about Williams. Newsflash....you spend just as much time nearly on the subject as I do. <gasp> The bulk of my posts about the issue are in back and forths with you..as you are the one who is so adamant that investing in the backfield in this manner was without a doubt correct.

Newsflash.... CRA is always the guy making the threads trashing Williams at every turn. I never make a thread about Williams either way. I simply come into them to give some balance and clarity lest people actually believe your crap and think you have a valid point. Funny thing is that even when you are proven wrong repeatedly, you come back in a week or two and make the same old thread and use the same faulty logic. Like Groundhog day..................

Even now you have no clue that you have no credibility and most folks think you are far too negative and over the top with your personal vendetta against Williams. two years after we resigned him.

[panthers34]

not true he averaged 5.4 yards per carry lasy year

[MaineManPanther]

No, but the crowd can be a dang good indication...

If everyone is running and screaming coming out of a building......you might want to think twice before entering.

"Can" being the key word. It also may not be a good indication at all. The actions of the majority doesn't make anything true.

The fact of the matter is something is not wrong just because everybody else isn't doing it. Not even close.

You are indeed using a red herring:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so."

The argumentum ad populum is a red herring and genetic fallacy.

It is logically fallacious because the mere fact that a belief is widely-held is not necessarily a guarantee that the belief is correct; if the belief of any individual can be wrong, then the belief held by multiple persons can also be wrong

There are valid arguments agianst our expensive backfield. But the argument the " no one else is doing it " isn't one of them.