Who is Jim Harbaugh?

[fieryprophet]

The front 7, offensive line, and secondary blow us out of the water. Not even close.

There you go. We have some great players, but we're unbalanced like hell.

[FootballMaestro]

Rivera coaching that San Fransisco defense? Keeping in mind how much our defense has improved even with much lesser players? I truly don't know, but you can imagine it would have been a hellacious team. I don't think his vertical philosophy would have allowed for Smith to have been a competent QB, but he could have worked with Kaepernick fairly well, considering his experience with Cam.

You keep forgetting that Rivera is a horrible off the field Manager, Decision Maker and Leader; not including his much discussed on field coaching foibles.

Coaching is not just X's and O's or what happens ON the field (though we know Rivera doesn't always do those things well). Coaching is also what happens OFF the field.

And there's nothing in Rivera's resume so far (until maybe the middle of this season; but we'll have to wait till next year), that shows he would have turned around that San Francisco team the way Harbaugh did. Rivera's still learning on the job. Harbaugh is a proven leader, CEO-type, decision maker, and effective inspiration of men. This has been told and displayed. Rivera is not; until shown otherwise. That's the big difference.

[fieryprophet]

You keep forgetting that Rivera is a horrible off the field Manager, Decision Maker and Leader; not including his much discussed on field coaching foibles.

Coaching is not just X's and O's or what happens ON the field (though we know Rivera doesn't always do those things well). Coaching is also what happens OFF the field.

And there's nothing in Rivera's resume so far (until maybe the middle of this season; but we'll have to wait till next year), that shows he would have turned around that San Francisco team the way Harbaugh did. Rivera's still learning on the job. That's the big difference.

The man who had his players fighting hard from 2-8 to finish 7-9 in a lost season isn't a leader? Let's see how Harbaugh coaches when the chips are down before proclaiming him such a terrific leader.

[FootballMaestro]

The man who had his players fighting hard from 2-8 to finish 7-9 in a lost season isn't a leader? Let's see how Harbaugh coaches when the chips are down before proclaiming him such a terrific leader.

I also said (cause I knew you would go that route) "effective leader".

What's the point of you're players fighting for and playing hard for you, and you still can't win the close games (and are out of the playoff running around the middle of the season)?

If the players believed in Rivera so much, maybe they would have won some of those earlier games, and not had lost so many of those close ones, where he's 1-12 the past two years.

The question can be asked, when your players allegededly play so hard for you, but you're 1-12 in 7 pt games the past two seasons, then maybe the coaching/coach is the real problem?? It's certainly not cause the players don't play hard (though that was the problem earlier in the season, in the 1st TB, Giants and Denver games). Rivera has just been a mediocre to below average coach in most areas, which you couldn't say the same about Harbaugh. I'm sorry.

[MadHatter]

Dear God the Huddle sucks lately.

[FootballMaestro]

Personally, I don't.

Neither do I.

And I certainly feel Harbaugh would have done a better job here (which I detailed earlier).

[fieryprophet]

I also said (cause I knew you would go that route) "effective leader".

What's the point of you're players fighting for and playing hard for you, and you still can't win the close games (and are out of the playoff running around the middle of the season)?

If the players believed in Rivera so much, maybe they would have won some of those earlier games, and not had lost so many of those close ones, where he's 1-12 the past two years.

The question can be asked, when your players allegededly play so hard for you, but you're 1-12 in 7 pt games the past two seasons, then maybe the coaching/coach is the real problem?? It's certainly not cause the players don't play hard (though that was the problem earlier in the season, in the 1st TB, Giants and Denver games). Rivera has just been a mediocre to below average coach in most areas, which you couldn't say the same about Harbaugh. I'm sorry.

Close game records are essentially random: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8284393/breaking-best-nfl-stats

[FootballMaestro]

Close game records are essentially random: http://www.grantland...-best-nfl-stats

Yeah, but it's been two years in a row, and he's 1-12 in them.

Nobody's that unlucky.

I think Rivera (and his poor out of game and in game preparation) has a lot to do with that.

Now, you're trying to make excuses for Rivera, when he himself admitted he's made mistakes, and could have used an experienced former HC to help guide him. So some of that's on Rivera, and even he recognized/admitted that.

[fieryprophet]

Yeah, but it's been two years in a row, and he's 1-12 in them.

Nobody's that unlucky.

I think Rivera (and his poor out of game and in game preparation) has a lot to do with that.

Now, you're trying to make excuses for Rivera, when he himself admitted he's made mistakes, and could have used an experienced former HC to help guide him. So some of that's on Rivera, and even he recognized/admitted that.

Some of that is on Rivera, but not all of it. hence, his 1-12 record may be closer to 1-4 for games in which he is directly responsible. Not good, but not catastrophic. And again, what indications do we have that Harbaugh is any better of a close game coach?

[FootballMaestro]

Some of that is on Rivera, but not all of it. hence, his 1-12 record may be closer to 1-4 for games in which he is directly responsible. Not good, but not catastrophic. And again, what indications do we have that Harbaugh is any better of a close game coach?

I think it's higher than 1-4 (even if that's outside the variables, cause Rivera increases them against himself).

However, to answer your question: Here's what makes Rivera a bad, worse coach than Harbaugh, adding to that close loss total of his.

Though Rivera knows he's not the best game manager, especially in tight games. He consistently plays not to lose, when he has big leads, ultimately leading to the opposition coming back, and Rivera losing those games. Now if you know, you're not the best game manager, than why not keep your foot on the accelerator pedal, so you don't have to face/worry about making those decisions in the first place? That makes sense, right? But Rivera doesn't.

My second point is: If Rivera knows/knew he needed an experienced HC to help guide him. Then how come he didn't hire one to help him this year?

The true definition of insanity, is to do the same thing over and over again, and expect different results. And that adds to his close loss futility. Of course he may change, learn. However, you know what I'm saying as well.

Somehow, I don't expect Harbaugh to be as dumb, with simple decisions. He couldn't be, and be where he is right now. Just face it!

[fieryprophet]

I think it's higher than 1-4 (even if that's outside the variables, cause Rivera increases them against him).

However, to answer your question: Here's what makes Rivera a bad, worse coach.

Though Rivera knows he's not the best game manager, especially in tight games. He consistently plays not to lose, when he has big leads, ultimately leading to the opposition coming back, and Rivera losing those games. Now if you know, you're not the best game manager, than why not keep your foot on the accelerator pedal, so you don't have to come to making those decisions in the first place? That makes sense. But Rivera doesn't.

My second point is: If Rivera knows/knew he needed an experienced HC to help guide him. Then how come he didn't hire one to help him this year?

The true definition of insanity, is to do the same thing over and over again, and expect different results. Of course he may change, learn. However, you know what I'm saying as well.

Somehow, I don't expect Harbaugh to be as dumb, with simple decisions. He couldn't be, and be where he is right now. Just face it!

See, I've expounded in great detail why I believe Harbaugh to be overrated, and all I ever get back in return is "well, he can't be, because they're winning" when there are innumerable instances of mediocre coaches winning and close game records are essentially random and he schemes aren't very advanced and he has talented team to work with and. . .

I mean, can someone give me one solid attribute of Jim Harbaugh that can say "see, this adjustment made in the second half of the Atlanta game completely stifled the Falcons offense and led to them being shut out." Because I actually can point to one adjustment that helped, but I'm waiting for anyone of you Harbaugh lovers to point it out.

[FootballMaestro]

See, I've expounded in great detail why I believe Harbaugh to be overrated, and all I ever get back in return is "well, he can't be, because they're winning" when there are innumerable instances of mediocre coaches winning and close game records are essentially random and he schemes aren't very advanced and he has talented team to work with and. . .

I mean, can someone give me one solid attribute of Jim Harbaugh that can say "see, this adjustment made in the second half of the Atlanta game completely stifled the Falcons offense and led to them being shut out." Because I actually can point to one adjustment that helped, but I'm waiting for anyone of you Harbaugh lovers to point it out.

Even if I/we take everything you said as true.....Did the thought ever occur to you, that maybe he's a better Manager, Decision Maker, Motivator and leader, than in game or X's and O's coach??

Nonetheless, that would be enough to still make him a good to very good coach, and certainly better--at this stage than Rivera.

As I said, Rivera is known to be an excellent X's and O's guy. But he's a mediocre in game coach, Executive and decision maker, which his X's and O's can't over come and makes him a bad coach on the field/during games. It's not just probability in Rivera's case. He's aided to his poorer results.

Some coaches strengths are in leader ship, decision making, talent procurement and Executive decision making. Some coaches are in game planning. With others, it's in their in game adjustments, coaching up, or even motivating players. Those are just to name a few.

All can be good coaches, or have elements of all of the above. Like I said. Even if we take what you say about Harbaugh as Da Gospel. There isn't one set formula or criteria on being a good Coach.

[fieryprophet]

Even if I/we take everything you said as true.....Did the thought ever occur to you, that maybe he's a better Manager, Decision Maker, Motivator and leader, than in game or X's and O's coach??

Nonetheless, that would be enough to still make him a good to very good coach, and certainly better--at this stage than Rivera.

As I said, Rivera is known to be an excellent X's and O's guy. But he's a mediocre in game coach, Executive and decision maker, which his X's and O's can't over come and makes him a bad coach on the field/during games. It's not just probability in his case.

. . .Again, how many players were adamant in their praise of Rivera? For someone who you think to be an incapable motivator or leader they were certainly motivated in spite of crushing defeats and a lost season. Especially when you compare their responses to the debacle of the 2010 season, or Reid's last year in Philly, or the circus surrounding Rex Ryan. No one in their right mind can argue that this team wasn't playing like a team down the stretch, and fighting hard, and playing to win and not to not lose. Whereas Harbaugh already has a reputation as a farcical liar, a manipulator, and an arrogant asshole.

[FootballMaestro]

. . .Again, how many players were adamant in their praise of Rivera? For someone who you think to be an incapable motivator or leader they were certainly motivated in spite of crushing defeats and a lost season. Especially when you compare their responses to the debacle of the 2010 season, or Reid's last year in Philly, or the circus surrounding Rex Ryan. No one in their right mind can argue that this team wasn't playing like a team down the stretch, and fighting hard, and playing to win and not to not lose. Whereas Harbaugh already has a reputation as a farcical liar, a manipulator, and an arrogant asshole.

What the players say mean Bunk. Now you're grasping for straws to continue or win an argument.

The San Diego players didn't want to see Norv Turner go for years either. That's a common cry by players, who some how feel responsible for a coaches departure, unless they just don't like them.

There have been numerous examples of this, concerning chronic under achieving teams and coaches over the years.

C'mon, you know this as well.