Cap space and updated review of all offseason moves.

[Frank Hollywood]

I appreciate you trying to help but if you are right my brain just is not absorbing it.

The top 51 have always counted. The bottom 2 cap hits have never amounted anywhere close to 15 million(the difference in the numbers I calculated and the supposed 16 million we were over to start with).

If only the 51 lowest contracts counted then it would make more sense. But the 51 highest contracts have always counted. Those 2 bottom contracts come nowhere close to being enough to equal around 14-15 million cap hits.

Basically what I am saying is the 52nd and 53rd highest contracts cap hits never totaled anywhere near 14-15 million.

In other words, he's saying if you count the TOTAL cap hit of every new player on the roster, you have to count the total cap hit of EVERY single player that they replaced.

In other words if he's taking someone's roster spot you only count the difference in cap.

Hixon signed at 1mil replaces joe Adams who's cap hit this year is 550k. Difference is 450k. (I made these numbers up as an example and there are usually other variables involved like guaranteed money, etc but you get the idea.

[CharlottePanther]

This is impressive but can someone explain something to me.. I keep hearing our cap space is going to be bad next season but how? How much over the cap are we going to be at the start next season as it stands now? Will Gettleman be able to make similar moves next season to free up as much cap space? Is our cap situation next year as dire as some are making it?

[Frank Hollywood]

This is impressive but can someone explain something to me.. I keep hearing our cap space is going to be bad next season but how? How much over the cap are we going to be at the start next season as it stands now? Will Gettleman be able to make similar moves next season to free up as much cap space? Is our cap situation next year as dire as some are making it?

Search my content for my 2014 cap situation thread. It's an in depth analysis of why we are still extremely cap tight. Link it if possible.

Edit- here you go

[Floppin]

I'm going to go a littler further her and use real numbers. Let's use a hypothetical number of say.....500k as the general value of the bottom contract for our top 51 contracts.

 

Now here are our acquisitions via free agency and draft as you stated earlier

 

 

2013 Signings and cap hits *all 1 years unless otherwise noted
Dwan Edwards $1.6 Million(2yr 3.6 million deal, with 1.4 signing bonus)

Domenik Hixon 1.2 million (750k base, 250k signing bonus and 200k workout bonus)
Captain $1.1 million (including $300k signing bonus and $50k workout bonus)
Tedd Ginn Jr. $1.1 million(including $300k signing bonus and $50k workout bonus)
Chase Blackburn $1 million(2 yr 2.05 million,including $200k signing bonus)

Mike Mitchell $725k(no signing bonus--makes him easier to cut if he does not show well early)
Drayton Florence $620k(base salary is $840k)
Ben Hartstock $620k--(base salary is $840k)
D.J Moore $555k--(base salary is $715k)
Derek Anderson $555k--(base salary is $840k)
Colin Cole $555k--(base salary is $840k)
Richie Brockel $555k--

Total cap space spent from above = 10.185

 

2013 Draft Picks and cap hits

Star- 1.746 Million

Shortt- $841K

Kugbila- $519K

Klein-  $452k

Barner- $431k

 

totals- 3.989 Million

 

So now lets look at this, piece by piece....remember we are assigning a general value for the bottom contract of 500K (this would in reality fluctuate a little based on the bottom contract getting pushed off, but it would remain fairly low, but for the basis of making a point, we are going to keep a static value)

 

2013 Signings and cap hits *all 1 years unless otherwise noted
Dwan Edwards $1.6 Million(2yr 3.6 million deal, with 1.4 signing bonus) 1.6 Million minus bottom contract, equals 1 Million true cap adjustment

Domenik Hixon 1.2 million (750k base, 250k signing bonus and 200k workout bonus) 1.2 Million minus bottom contract equals 700k True cap adjustment
Captain $1.1 million (including $300k signing bonus and $50k workout bonus) 1.1 changes to 600k

Tedd Ginn Jr. $1.1 million(including $300k signing bonus and $50k workout bonus) 1.1 Changes to 600k
Chase Blackburn $1 million(2 yr 2.05 million,including $200k signing bonus) 1 changes to 500k

Mike Mitchell $725k(no signing bonus--makes him easier to cut if he does not show well early) 725 changes to 250k
Drayton Florence $620k(base salary is $840k) 620 changes to 120k
Ben Hartstock $620k--(base salary is $840k)620 to 120k
D.J Moore $555k--(base salary is $715k) 550k to 50k
Derek Anderson $555k--(base salary is $840k)550k to 50k
Colin Cole $555k--(base salary is $840k)550k to 50k
Richie Brockel $555k--550k to 50k

Total cap space spent from above = 10.185 Total cap change adjusted: 3.014 million 

 

2013 Draft Picks and cap hits

Star- 1.746 Million 1.746  to 1.246

Shortt- $841K 841 to 341

Kugbila- $519K 519 to 19

Klein-  $452k Doesn't even count

Barner- $431k Doesn't Even Count

 

totals- 3.989 Million Total Adjusted cap hit: 1.6 Million

 

Total cap change between Free Agency and Draft picks 4.614 million......Now this isn't exact because I used a static figure, but you should get the idea now.

 

[panther4life]

I'm going to go a littler further her and use real numbers. Let's use a hypothetical number of say.....500k as the general value of the bottom contract for our top 51 contracts.

 

Now here are our acquisitions via free agency and draft as you stated earlier

 

So now lets look at this, piece by piece....remember we are assigning a general value for the bottom contract of 500K (this would in reality fluctuate a little based on the bottom contract getting pushed off, but it would remain fairly low, but for the basis of making a point, we are going to keep a static value)

 

2013 Signings and cap hits *all 1 years unless otherwise noted

Dwan Edwards $1.6 Million(2yr 3.6 million deal, with 1.4 signing bonus) 1.6 Million minus bottom contract, equals 1 Million true cap adjustment

Domenik Hixon 1.2 million (750k base, 250k signing bonus and 200k workout bonus) 1.2 Million minus bottom contract equals 700k True cap adjustment

Captain $1.1 million (including $300k signing bonus and $50k workout bonus) 1.1 changes to 600k

Tedd Ginn Jr. $1.1 million(including $300k signing bonus and $50k workout bonus) 1.1 Changes to 600k

Chase Blackburn $1 million(2 yr 2.05 million,including $200k signing bonus) 1 changes to 500k

Mike Mitchell $725k(no signing bonus--makes him easier to cut if he does not show well early) 725 changes to 250k

Drayton Florence $620k(base salary is $840k) 620 changes to 120k

Ben Hartstock $620k--(base salary is $840k)620 to 120k

D.J Moore $555k--(base salary is $715k) 550k to 50k

Derek Anderson $555k--(base salary is $840k)550k to 50k

Colin Cole $555k--(base salary is $840k)550k to 50k

Richie Brockel $555k--550k to 50k

Total cap space spent from above = 10.185 Total cap change adjusted: 3.014 million 

 

2013 Draft Picks and cap hits

Star- 1.746 Million 1.746  to 1.246

Shortt- $841K 841 to 341

Kugbila- $519K 519 to 19

Klein-  $452k Doesn't even count

Barner- $431k Doesn't Even Count

 

totals- 3.989 Million Total Adjusted cap hit: 1.6 Million

 

Total cap change between Free Agency and Draft picks 4.614 million......Now this isn't exact because I used a static figure, but you should get the idea now.

 

I understand your cap adjustments. But the number of times it can be done is what I question. We never ever had more than 53 contracts counting against the cap. In your scenario you just pushed 17 contracts off the books. 

 

I thought we could only push the bottom 2 off. 53-2 =the 51 that count.

 

 

[Frank Hollywood]

I understand your cap adjustments. But the number of times it can be done is what I question. We never ever had more than 53 contracts counting against the cap. In your scenario you just pushed 17 contracts off the books.

I thought we could only push the bottom 2 off. 53-2 =the 51 that count.

They are replacing someone's roster spot. Every player that is signed cost another player his job. Why would they count a player who is no longer on the team?

[carolina-chuck]

Well are we going to sign anyone to protect Cam with the money we have???

[panther4life]

Heres another way of looking at it.

 

Assumed facts

- He cleared 31.98 in room.

-When all 53 contracts count he spent 14.174. if every free agent and draft pick he signed makes the team.

 

So if we started out negative 16 million and then gained 31.98 million. That gives a net positive number 15.98.

 

Subtract the 14.174(money spent) from the 15.8(net space after money cleared, assuming we started out -16) once all 53 count and we are down to 1.626 Million in space at start of season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frank Hollywood]

Heres another way of looking at it.

Assumed facts

- He cleared 31.98 in room.

-When all 53 contracts count he spent 14.174. if every free agent and draft pick he signed makes the team.

So if we started out negative 16 million and then gained 31.98 million. That gives a net positive number 15.98.

Subtract the 14.174(money spent) from the 15.8(net space after money cleared, assuming we started out -16) once all 53 count and we are down to 1.626 Million in space at start of season.

Oh man. How is this still over your head?

[Floppin]

I understand your cap adjustments. But the number of times it can be done is what I question. We never ever had more than 53 contracts counting against the cap. In your scenario you just pushed 17 contracts off the books.

I thought we could only push the bottom 2 off. 53-2 =the 51 that count.

We have well over 51 players right now. We have over 72 which means that 20 player's contracts don't count against our cap at present. When the season starts you push the last two off of your 53 man roster. But we don't have a 53 man team at present. So any time we signed someone this of season we pushed someone else off the books. Additionally each time the bottom contract was pushed off by an incoming higher contract, it makes the new bottom contract a higher figure so any additional signings would have an even larger reduction in their adjusted cap change.

Its for this reason that we won't know our true cap status till after final cuts. There are likely many players that don't even count against our current cap that we'll keep while some that currently do will be gone.

[Floppin]

Heres another way of looking at it.

Assumed facts

- He cleared 31.98 in room.

-When all 53 contracts count he spent 14.174. if every free agent and draft pick he signed makes the team.

So if we started out negative 16 million and then gained 31.98 million. That gives a net positive number 15.98.

Subtract the 14.174(money spent) from the 15.8(net space after money cleared, assuming we started out -16) once all 53 count and we are down to 1.626 Million in space at start of season.

Jesus Christ guy, never fuging mind. This is clearly over your head.

[panther4life]

How many contracts were you using/assuming that accounted for us being 16 million over? Anything over 53 never would have been real in the first place.

[Floppin]

How many contracts were you using/assuming that accounted for us being 16 million over? Anything over 53 never would have been real in the first place.

 

Jesus titty fuging Christ. Only 51 contracts count against the cap at any point in time, if we were allowed to sign 158797823498 players in an offseason, only the top 51 contracts would ever count against the cap. Before this recent round of cuts teams were allowed to have 90 players, that means that ALMOST 40 PLAYERS DIDNT" COUNT AGAINST THE CAP. So anytime ANYONE was signed during this period, the player that represented the 51st VALUED contract was pushed off the books to be replaced by whomever we signed who represented a higher cap value. 

 

Let me tell you what you're doing, you're looking at it like our cap value before any adjustments was only calculated for 34 players. We've added 17 contracts this offseason via free agency and the draft: IE 51 minus 17 = 34. The reason I say this is because you're adding the total cap hit value of these 17 new contracts to the already existing cap hit. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. You added 17 contracts to a cap figure that already was counting 51 players!!!! So now you're going to tell me that you're going to take that total cap hit for 51 players and add a total value for 17 new contracts to that total and it makes fuging sense in your head? That's 68 contracts dude. SIXTY-EIGHT CONTRACTS. We can only count 51...somethings got to give. Those contracts represent old contracts being replaced with new ones, or actual players replacing new players....they don't exist in a fuging vacuum where you just add the total to the our prior figure willy-nilly. 

 

If we were only allowed 53 players at any one point, every time we signed someone or redid a contract, it would have to literally replace another contract at THAT exact moment, but it doesn't. In the offseason all it does is push the lowest counted contract off the books. 

[Frank Hollywood]

Jesus titty fuging Christ. Only 51 contracts count against the cap at any point in time, if we were allowed to sign 158797823498 players in an offseason, only the top 51 contracts would ever count against the cap. Before this recent round of cuts teams were allowed to have 90 players, that means that ALMOST 40 PLAYERS DIDNT" COUNT AGAINST THE CAP. So anytime ANYONE was signed during this period, the player that represented the 51st VALUED contract was pushed off the books to be replaced by whomever we signed who represented a higher cap value.

Let me tell you what you're doing, you're looking at it like our cap value before any adjustments was only calculated for 34 players. We've added 17 contracts this offseason via free agency and the draft: IE 51 minus 17 = 34. The reason I say this is because you're adding the total cap hit value of these 17 new contracts to the already existing cap hit. BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. We added 17 contracts to a cap figure that already was counting 51 players!!!! So now you're going to tell me that you're going to take that total cap hit for 51 players and add a total value for 17 new contracts to that total and it makes fuging sense in your head? That's 68 contracts dude. SIXTY-EIGHT CONTRACTS. We can only count 51...somethings got to give. Those contracts represent old contracts being replaced with new ones, or actual players replacing new players....they don't exist in a fuging vacuum where you just add the total to the our prior figure willy-nilly.

If we were only allowed 53 players at anyone point, every time we signed someone or redid a contract, it would have to literally replace another contract at THAT exact moment, but it doesn't. In the offseason all it does is push the lowest counted contract off the books.

I understand it didn't literally replace the old contract, I was just hoping by looking at it that way he would grasp it.