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Okay, that's below the belt

If I'd just looked at the comparison I put up, I probably wouldn't want to focus outside the running backs either (though even that argument is fatally flawed since you don't want to acknowledge that Dowdle is banged up) Unfortunately, the league doesn't allow us to play seven on seven. So yeah, those other position comparisons do actually matter.

Bussi 9-1 as a starter the math math's ride the BUS

Why are you not just using year totals? You are hung up on starts like coming in during a blowout when teams are in prevent in some sort of disadvantage to a QB or something. That's free yards normally. It's because without those he creeps above Bryce as you shrink the sample size or some people might see that as cherry picking (while you are blaming someone else for doing the same). On the year Bryce has a better rating and QBR. ESPN just uses totals on the seasons in their QB stats. Shough is also 2 years older than Bryce despite being a rookie. This anti-Bryce obsession is starting to creep up on rippadon levels with some of you. I get he has had a rough start but I also understand we are stuck with him the rest of the year and more than likely next year. Hopefully he can figure out how to play at a high level more consistently.

Evans isnt going to be close to 100% hes just gonna be taking snaps from their younger healthy guys..... Godwin has already been doing that.... this is a case of subtraction by addition IMO.... not to mention baker cant throw more than 20 yards right now without doubling over in pain from his off shoulder.

Different? No. More recent, and thus more relevant? Yes. Yeah...that doesn't actually make any sense If you'd have gone by Jake Delhomme's career stats and percentagea in 2003, it's likely you wouldn't even have signed him, much less started him. And you sure as hell couldn't have predicted how that season was going to turn out. You don't pass on a guy who's playing well at this moment because he was bad two years ago. No more than you throw big free agent money at a guy on the downside of his career because he used to be good. (heaven knows we've made that mistake before) The only thing that has any meaning at all is how good they are right now. Bad prior seasons have no bearing whatsoever.

I don't see the need to move on from RBs.... I didn't say he was a bum. I said most knowledgeable people are flat out taking the DUO of RBs that have generated a top 10 rush team over the season.....over Kamara in his worst season of his career (leading a league worst attack).....if asked which team is giving their QB better skill players in the backfield this season. It's amazing what Bryce defense will do. Got you in here essentially making wilds claim about run games/RB talent in 2025. Pooping on a top 10 rush attack that is the foundation of this team to prop up a league worst rush attack.

I'm not relying on rushing yards per game. Which is why I presented you with a host of different offensive production and efficiency stats. You said there was only one. I shared several. You just cherry picked one of the many shared out. and you are still intentionally distorting the most basic facts like wins/losses lol. the only gassing up being done here is about Bryce. Most of the thread is talking about Shough(our next opponent) in very normal terms.

Kamara is certainly later in his career but he's not exactly chopped liver. Again, outside this fanbase i doubt he'd lose that contest. As far as other comparisons: I'd put Tet McMillan equal with Chris Olave, though I think McMillan might be hitting a bit of a rookie wall. Others may say McMillan is promising but not to that level just yet. Damian Lewis is equal to or better than Dillon Radunz and Ickey is better than Kelvin Banks, though Banks even as a rookie ain't bad. The left side of our OL wins, but not in a blowout. On the other side, if he were fully healthy I could argue Taylor Moton over Taliese Fuaga but I don't think he is. The Saints likely take that one for now at least, and probably in the future since Fuaga is younger. Jalen Coker is getting back to form. Putting him over Dante Perris right now is probably a bit of a stretch but he's still doing well. So this far, fairly comparable / even. But here's where it starts to get bad... Whoever's starting at center this week vs Luke Fortner? Eeehhh, no. Right guard of the week against Cesar Ruiz? Uh uh. Any of our TEs vs Juwan Johnson? Don't think so. Xavier Legette over anybody at all? Oy So yeah, overall at this point Shough has a better supporting cast around him. Once Hunt and others are healthy again it becomes a better argument, but as mentioned the league isn't willing to postpone things so we can be at our best.

I would be very surprised if this wasn't it for Evans. They do have about $13 mil in void money that will hit their cap next year so they could work something out on a short term deal to lessen that. It will be interesting to see what he decides to do. I will certainly be glad to not see him anymore.

That's why I pointed it out because Bryce hasn't either, so it's not like that could be used an excuse for the poor winning percentage. And yes, right now, Kyler is the better QB. I would show it to you in the same "statistical" way that I did for Car123 but you have basically admitted that Kyler will obviously be statistically better(which is very true) and somehow that isn't relevant. Regardless, whether eye or statistical, you have made literally no reasonable counter argument other than "there is another guy in this forum that said he saw Arizona games and he said Kyler wasn't as good" and that "he got benched." That's really been the bulk of your argument so far. As for a "clutch performer", leader and whatever in the world a "smooth operator" is.....I guess that's the PFF version of your rankings.

The fact you're having to rely on "rushing yards per game" (he is averaging 18, Bryce is averaging 10) here is really telling lmao. I already gave the clear advanced differences. Shough is playing worse than Bryce. You are literally gassing up a worse, 2-4 QB for a rival team and I find that incredibly funny.

Okay so I took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play. Overall, I would say this indicates by the categories that I have detailed out that Tua and Geno are clearly the guys that are having worse seasons than Bryce. I would add that I am still of the opinion that they are better overall QB's given both capability and past performances. I will definitely concede there is not a solid statistical argument for them having a better year than Bryce, to date. Here is the data I gathered and I have shaded the cells according to "better than" or "worse than" Bryce. In a couple of the categories, this is an inverse because I am indicating these were less aggravating situations than Bryce has had and therefore less excusable reasoning for sucking. Let me know if there are any questions on the data/categories/etc.

Which is why you can't ignore the 1st 2 seasons because the Saints and 9ers looked exactly like Bryce in the 1st 2 seasons.

You must be watching different football than I am because when Im watching Bryce at QB, literally none of those things come to my mind.

Ask me in January.

Has Bryce? Again though, prior career results don't mean much when we're talking about right now. This season, Bryce can legitimately be called a clutch performer, a leader, a smooth operator, etc. Don't know that anyone would apply those descriptions to Murray at the moment...or even before for that matter. I'm not counting on Bryce to continue this run, but I can't really blame anyone else much if they do.

So let's forget the past 2 seasons. Which of the last 4 games are the true Bryce. The Rams and Falcons or the 9ers and Saints?

So I think I have unlocked your puzzle. Bryce has better talent around him than Shough. But you feel the need to argue against me.....so you are presenting that if the stars align just right on 12/14/2025 you might get to say on one particular day Shough has better talent around him....even though that isn't an accurate reflection of anything we have witnessed on the year w/ what the Panthers and Saints have supported their QB with. I think most football savvy people would take 2025 Rico/Hubbard over the present day variant of Kamara. Only thing in Rico's way of late is Canales via bad gameplans or fixation of putting Rico in his place for criticizing his play calling in public. Kamara is 30. Worst season of his career. Worst ypc of his career. 1 rush TDs. Zero 100 yard ush games. You being extremely generous for 1 Saints RB and very harsh on a duo of Panther RBs for this arguement.

He sound like a Panthers fan. Cautiously optimistic. Maybe he has turned a new leaf.

Yeah, you would hope so. I am not gonna count too many of those chickens yet. Too many questions about this front office overall. It's been so bad for so long that they are going to have to do a lot of good work to get complete faith back or even partial faith.

This is where the old "past results are no guarantee of future performance" disclaimer comes in. If Bryce does indeed manage to become a consistent good quarterback, nobody's gonna give a sh-t about his first two seasons. If he doesn't, nobody's gonna care about his stretch of good performances this season. I know what I'm expecting, but truth is both those options are equally possible.

If Brees third year wasn't fantastic, I don't really know what your measurement for fantastic is but it's very likely Bryce will never achieve that in his career.

Yes but his career winning percentages show that he almost exclusively chokes, especially when compared to Murray. Now, there is some nuance to all that, for certain but Bryce doesn't win often has been his entire career. It's not like Murray has been on a franchise that is known for stability either, for that matter.

Honestly just sounds like cautious optimism to me... (something which I'll happily embrace over the feelings we had late in some of our prior seasons )