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So tell me he didn't sulk on the sidelines with his head in a towel when he played poorly early in his career. Do you remember when he first was drafted he wouldn't even work with the team in the weight room until Thomas Davis set him straight. Cam was our best QB until he got hurt but he had a lot of growing up to do which he did. But let's remember he was a work in progress just like Bryce although at different things. And lets be real Cam joined a much better team than Bryce did especially the defense. What hurt Cam and the team was fruit basket turnover evey year by Gettleman which kept the team from developing chemistry and consistency early in several seasons. I loved Cam but am realistic about his progress and need to develop and grow.

Actually the support seems legitimate and not just when in public. It is a team sport and players have to believe and trust their QB and give their all for the team. Lately that seems to be developing. As players have shared their is a different culture being built for the Panthers as winning helps players see the changes result in some success.

I see progress and improvements. We aren't the same team we were even at the beginning of this year. You want to harp on the past while I am all about the present and future. Do I know thinks are going to be great moving forward? Actually I don't but I prefer to look at the good instead of the bad. Since he is surely going to be the QB the rest of this year barring injury, I am going to root for him to succeed instead of fail. I always said if we are going to finish at 500 for the year I prefer we win at home since I will be there and want to see wins and crying opposing fans like the cowboys. So far mission accomplished. Now we have to show we can win on the road.

Yeah and I am doubtful he can offer that consistently. I don’t have many years left at my age and in my view we have wasted two and this whole exercise with him was always a three year minimum. I am out on that with a guy I don’t believe in, and never believed in, it has sucked. To me it is a costly detour off the right track. Years. But I am not so rigid that I can’t see excellence. He needs to display it though, consistently before I change my outlook.

No, when I said rage, I meant rage, which only applies to certain fans on this board. Your timeline of trying to assess whether he is the future or not is really tied to the discussions surrounding his second contract. If this team is going to commit to some monster contract while he has shown nothing but glimpses of brilliance would be deservedly worrisome, so the clock is genuinely ticking for him to settle into something resembling his final form. Perhaps a best case scenario is that he plays well, the team succeeds, but he does so with a more limited role that makes the rest of the league view him as a game manager, and his second contract value reflects that. Then he continues to improve and becomes a bargain comparatively while not handicapping the team around him, and we enter an era of consistent championship competitiveness that the fanbase has craved for decades and has never really experienced before. But that requires many, many things to go right and for Bryce himself to facilitate that if he ends up being the quarterback of the future.

Exactly. And the flame throwers as well, get location benefits from not going all out. But they have it in reserve. Not sure how much Greg had but he was an artist. There was a YouTube I came across last year or maybe even 2023 and I don’t how to even find now but it had two NFL QBs I want say one was Carr from the Raiders but I don’t really remember The point of it is they stood side by side throwing identical distances to identical targets. Radar gun was used. They threw the normal effort (not all out) and it was measured etc. Then they were asked to throw their ‘fastball’. They were missing and most often they were missing high. It demonstrated the same principle. edit: and applying that to arm strength, give me the guy that doesn’t need max effort to have good velocity. The margins are so narrow with less velocity in tne NFL the defenders can Close on it and this is a league where they value down to the 100th of a second level. It is that tight

There's a reason Greg Maddux was never a flamethrower but still one of the most feared pitchers of all time, because accuracy beats velocity far more often then vice versa. Once you exceed a certain minimum capability, you can thrive with extreme traits elsewhere, its not strictly about power in any sport but powerlifting.

He has done it before. Stand in and plant and step up into pressure making the throw. There was a pretty good play on Sunday where he was in tight quarters and hung in there. He did it when he came back last year. But in preseason he was bailing again plain as day. Hearing footsteps, avoiding being hit. I don’t know. He just doesn’t stick with it.

The majority of the velocity on a throw is based around a player's core, so developing "arm" strength is really a function of developing one's ability to rotate the entire body, accentuate the transfer of weight over the hips, and apply that momentum to generate force on the ball. All of these things alter the placement of the ball and accuracy without thousands of reps to realign to the new mechanics. The hope then with young quarterbacks is that they simply grow into their bodies and that experience allows them to optimize their natural mechanics to eliminate wasted motion and with repetition expand both their power and accuracy.

You are characterizing skepticism or negative perception as rage and hate and vitriol and whatever else. Then you say they/we need to rein in the hyperbole. Ironic because I view your choice of words there as hyperbole. That said there is fear that he will do just enough to fool people into seeing him as the future and give him more time. Yet another year. I am there and feel like we need a very clear answer and want it this year. I don’t want to be in the same position again next year. Like, I really don’t want that. He has to tear it up for me to believe it isn’t a temporary thing and he’ll just go back to the annual week one and week two complete suckage routine. Again.

This is a perspective I agree with.

Even a player that bounces around repeatedly with no success might suddenly stumble into a situation perfectly tailored for them. Think Kurt Warner and how as long as he was on teams that thrived with his timing-based, quick throwing traits, he was able to play well, but outside of that context he was marginal. So even on the same team, once the schemes diverged from his strengths his performance fell off as well. The question then becomes is that a failing of his due to having only a specific skillset, or a failing of the teams for not properly utilizing his unique traits to allow him and by proxy the rest of the team to thrive?

He’s overthrown WRs numerous times deep,I don’t think his arm strength there is a problem, def seems to be and issue in the 20-30 yard range, I don’t see a lot of outbreaking routes being completed, whether that’s due to his lack of ability to drive the ball to the outside hash or our WRs, especially XL cornering at the top of there routes. regardless of his weaknesses, the question is can a team be built around him to mask them, or can he overcome those weaknesses and adapt. I know it’s beating a dead horse, but something big is missing from Bryce’s qb play that’s leading to so many sub 200 yard passing games, all signs lead to a physical trait that’s the cause of this, wether it’s arm strength or his height

That was fully intentional, because something people who engage in hyperbole can't stand is to be systematically told why and how they don't have a clue. It's the prevalence of this farcical idea that everyone's opinions are valid and the more impassioned they are about them, the more valid they are. And the point of the post wasn't merely to cut the knees of the exaggerators, but to illustrate why it shouldn't seem miraculous that someone like Mayfield and Darnold could come through Charlotte and fail and then suddenly seem much more successful elsewhere, when the reality is that there's far more to being successful at that position than one's own talent. It's also why young quarterbacks like Caleb Williams and Cam Ward deserve much longer leashes to determine their long-term viability and not be written off immediately, because the circumstances surrounding them are hardly conducive to success.

I think at some point you top out what God gave you. He can use leverage via his mechanics to maximize what he has and When he pays attention to it the throws are better. IMO as a layman a lot of it is what kind of ‘headroom’ you have. The guys who are gifted don’t have to use maximum effort to get good results and stay within themselves but they have it in reserve. They can do an arm throw for substantial distance without max effort. I think what we may be seeing with these ‘lasers’ is a throw that Bryce puts the max effort into and does his mechanics right and has his base right and it works together. To get to the payoff here, I think his best velocity throws take dall that whereas a naturally gifted guy doesn’t need to go full effort to get that same velocity. I have said this three or four times over the years and it never gets picked up on but the accuracy is more consistent with an easier motion and max effort can produce less predictable location. It is a baseball pitcher thing but it applies to throwing a pass too. It isn’t that you can’t make an accurate throw with full effort it is just not as reliably accurate to the same degree. Someone said something about his pro day and that is where I saw it too. He took a little extra step on the deep throws. Some call it a hitch but I don’t see it that way because I don’t see it on shorter throws. He does it trying to get distance. I saw that and just wanted no part of it at 1.1 . That is not tne characteristic of a 1.1 passer. He should have been at best, late first I had him second day. Of course I am no one and certainly not a pro evaluator, it is just that he was so easy to suss out. It is kind of in your face obvious. They must have thought they could fix him. Changing a lifelong throwing motion with the footwork tied into it is not fuging easy. Anyone that had decent success with ‘their’ way and tried to change it to get more, can tell you that.

Sounds like a tad bit of what Josh Allen had. He would make throws that made zero sense die to his desire to make a make. Bryce also turns the ball over believing their is an unlimited shot clock in those moments. Sometimes the best play is to reset for the next one.

See, I think one of his biggest issues is he bails too early. His instinct has been to bail as soon as defenders get behind him and the pocket starts to close in. Taller QBs hang in there for that extra second or two and throw over guys as the pocket collapses in the QBs lap. BY runs as soon as this starts to happen, which means routes don’t have time to develop and the field gets cut in half as soon as he runs. This last game I saw some signs of him being willing to hang in the pocket when the defense gets behind him, but that has been rare.

Even the big throws he made last Sunday looked liked glorified tosses, and the receivers were wide open. I dont get these fans trying to parade them around. Everybody who has watched football for a long time know what big throws look like.

I remember He had to get a running start on those deep throws at his pro day and he was still missing on them. I mean cot damn...Bryce was far and away a Tepper pick. No way the coaching staff was buying it.

I don't think the average fan understands how much arm strength is considered a "nice to have" in NFL circles. This isn't the 80s, it's an accuracy-based league first and foremost.

Whenever I watch non-Alabama QBs in the NFL throw I find myself marveling at the velocity and intensity of their passes. I have to ground myself because those are what NFL arms are supposed to look like and I’m just so used to seeing a weak noodle arm passer. He makes good throws here and there, but his norm is that weak arm. If it’s not genetically impossible, is it “bad” for a QB to develop arm strength in the offseason?

JT says it better than me: "This is a ***ing laser. . .This for all the guys who say he can't make all the throws. That's the throw." Does he do this every snap? No. But to say that he can't drive the ball downfield is categorically false by any standard.

This a flat out false. Guys like Tua, Burrow, Purdy, Hurts, all have weaker arms. None of you know how to gauge arm strength. Even former QBs (Dilfer, O’Sullivan) who saw Bryce workout next to Stroud have mentioned Bryce has a good enough arm Weak arm QBs don’t attempt these type of throws https://x.com/postfadecade/status/1826065791613379053 https://x.com/JoshNorris/status/1863603221387714828

Wow that O-Line is doing great!!

Trade for Jalen Philips