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I am beyond this idea of "development" with the Panthers. It just hasn't really happened here often enough and most of these "high potential, very raw" guys have just been flat busts for us. Wallace should have been on the pine for 2-3 years. And maybe at a place that actually DOES develop those type of players.

Frank to me was an offensive variant of Fox and Rivera. Frank being as bad as he was, wasn't because of Frank. It was a front office who didn't give him the basic blocks he needed to be the boring middle of the pack coach he was. when Frank's folks started going on TV and lobbying for what a Frank QB was going into the draft......that was the first warning flag. One day, years from now, like with all dysfunctional teams we will find out who actually stood on what side of the Bryce decisions before the company line of we "all agreed on Bryce" came out.

Baker's ego after his rookie year was a problem. He showed up here with it dented but we killed that for him. The rest I agree with.

That was one battle I never understood. Darnold is so clearly terrible and Bryce was terrible with a false hope of being better. Now both are very obviously bad. I will say that Darnold at least developed into a rosterable player. Bryce may be out of the league in 2-3 seasons at his current track.

I think if the Panthers signed Baker and just let Baker be our QB....things would have worked out better than than it did. We signed Baker, then didn't let him be our QB. He "competed" all preseason w/ Sam. He never got the work he needed going in. It was never his team.

Honestly, that is probably worse, TBH. I would rather you just suck right out of the gate than have to think about what could have been for a decade plus.

Remember the Seattle game with Dalton where the Bryce Stans mocked Dalton because he threw the ball 50+ times? Now Bryce does it, and he’s elite, and put out elite tape on Sunday. Lol

Simple. The ability to cycle through no name WRs and RBs and still win consistently in the salary cap era. Harder to tell before the cap as those teams were usually loaded. Extreme example: Besides Moss, name 3 WRs on the Patriots run that would be considered a true #1 receiver on better teams in the NFL. Welker? lol. Gronk was a TE. Name their big name RBs. Woodhead? Yeah, no. Brees turned a guy out of Hofstra in to a 1,000 yard receiver and was virtually unbeatable in the dome for a long stretch. Elite QBs turn JAG talent in to pro-bowlers.

You undervalue all the hard work and dedication it took to be this bad.

Yeah, and... NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG and that applies to coaches and GM's. If your a coach that has a bad team and is on the hot seat, you are not going to say that you are going to build the roster and NEXT year draft the QB (unless you are the Steelers) You draft the QB this year and that likely buys you an extra year before getting fired. The NFL is a instant gratification sport. Some teams (very few) take the long term, approach but even that doesnt always work. Ultimately its down to the player. We had a crap team and drafted Newton and we were instantly competitive. We drafted Young (whom I still support) and it seems we need to built a team around him. Frank did have a plan. Hell we had the most expensive coaching roster in the NFL. Everyone was singing our praises about the supports we put in place. Yet on game day there is only one person behind center.

I still maintain Baker was not the issue in Cleveland. Cleveland was just extremely stupid to pine after a guy like Watson when Baker was wildly successful by Cleveland QB standards. I will say that Baker's later success does show how terrible the Panthers are as an organization. We had the likely long term answer on a cheap deal but we dropped the ball completely pining after Bryce Young. Unreal.

PJ Walker could walk in that door tomorrow and we would be a more threatening team w/ a higher ceiling. I mean, we would still be a bad team but we would have a puncher's chance vs a lot of teams now w/ a dude like Tmac. How we handled the QB room has been malpractice for basically the entire Tepper era of various different flavors.

It’s definitely not looking good. I’m giving him some benefit of the doubt because it’s just his second year and he showed some good things as a rookie… but I agree, so far this season, he looks to have regressed drastically. I noticed starting in preseason. But, Rozeboom has been in the league long enough that we should know what he is by now. They went and signed him in FA so he could stand in the middle of the field with concrete blocks in his feet? Show up to the play late and throw a forearm whiff? Get smoked in the pass game? I just haven’t seen any positives.

RG3 at least gave Washington a season of hope and joy. As a rookie he posted a winning season, OROY and the postseason. So they got at least a year of something really nice. Then the pain came.

Yep could have grabbed Sanders or Shough late or picked up someone like Winston in FA but sat on their hands. Now they have no options

I am not saying that a chunk of this isn't true but some of these guys still thrive in less than stellar situations and then become serviceable or elite. So, an element of this is on the player too. Perhaps the team isn't developing you enough but are you putting in the work on your own? Are you trying to excel constantly? I think that comes down to internal versus external motivation. All of these truly great players seem to have an elite internal motivation to be great. I am doubtful that is Bryce. He seems like more of a standard "cog in the machine" guy.

Fair. I was just trying to focus on the current mess but they do deserve to be lumped in with the rest at this point.

Plenty of young QBs go to bad teams. That doesn't mean the QB isn't also part of the problem. Baker played well for the Browns but Baker had a Baker problem. Getting sent to the Panthers and enduring that hell sure appears to have motivated him. Teddy and Sam were always backup level guys who kept getting shots due to limited supply but the supporting cast does effect their effectiveness. Winston will always be goofy turnover machine but we he looks like a good option you know you are in QB hell. AR was always going to break and it was well talked about. D Jones looks much better with an offensive line but for how long. How about the 49ers ruined Lance when Purdy made it from thr other side of the draft? Said it before. I don't fear trading Young inside the NFCS. If he has succes agaisnt you then just fire the DC on the spot because that’s a bottom D. Even as a backup I don't think he can come in and win a game. Just more excuses from people not watching him play.

This is why he will be a QB coach in 2 years

But is he a dawg?

That is a swap included, though. So the RGIII is a little bit worse. I think there are more of these disastrously bad trade ups than we realize, because it isn't happening to us like Bryce did.

FTFY

The best thing about him is his motor and ability to pursue when he is out of position, which he frequently is. Wallace seems to have absolutely atrocious instincts. He might be the worst LB we have fielded in the Tepper era, which is saying a lot.

I’m just sick of it all. Burn everything down (not literally) and start over. I’m sick of this crappy performance year after year. 2015 was so long ago.

It's even worse in a 3-4. Those guys are vital.