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that's why I reference the entire specific tree Canales came up in and what made the offenses work at each point in time. You have 3 offenses. Wilson, Geno and Baker. They all have shared the same traits that made them work. All the offenses have been relatively uncreative (which Canales essentially conceded he wasn't bringing rocket science to Carolina) and have been dependent on having an aggressive QB downfield to essentially provide the balance to a predictable and boring offensive scheme.

Darnold folds when it's put on him. He is fine when the team carries him. Here they put it on the QBs 3 times in 3 years while no one could carry Rhule's mess of a nonexistent NFL level program. I would personally take Cousins because he was a better version of Darnold in every way except pay levels. Baker was a playoff QB his rookie year and another/final desperation move for a crew failing out of the NFL. He was the best of the 3 and it was never close. The context matters. Wilks had the truely good QB running scout team DE spouting crap like 'it's not my call' as an interim HC. I don't remember one person that didn't have Tepper and Rhule issues way ahead of the QBs problems by that time. Teddy got it worse but when Sam showed up the pattern became clear to most. No way to un-fug what those people did in those 3 years. Teddy was never going to be a savior they needed, they didn't use Sam as a bridge QB like they should have and they brought the best one into the worst situation steeped in desperation and incompetence in a year 3 that should never have happened. None were ever going to workout here given how the team was run, it was all built to fail. The people that didn't want them were right, maybe not for the correct reasons but that depends on the who, and the team proceeded to prove it.

Evero is becoming Eric Washington levels of bad. It's been over 7 years, and I still can't figure out what Eric Washington was trying to accomplish on this play.

Yeah, I know you want to do your thing here. Please point out where in Canales’ journey before arriving here…..his offensive tree worked without the style QB pointed out? I’ll wait. You wanting to nitpicking broad offenses doesn’t change what I said. We are specifically talking about the Canales tree/variant and Canales’ boring and unimaginative offense (his words too)…..needs a QB (just like everywhere else he has been) to put it over the the top and bail it outs

There is video somewhere of Tillis commenting on Wharton and knowing him in KC. Probably on the team site in one of those blueprint things or the like.

I don’t think Cam isn’t retiring because he is waiting for an opportunity to comeback. That wouldn’t stop you. Think he has verbally conceded he is done. I think Cam isn’t retiring so he can always use that in HOF talk. Never make himself even eligible. Never give people a means to say no.

I think people look too heavily to where he was and not what he did in the one season he actually was an OC. Yes, Russell Wilson and Geno Smith were launching long bombs in Seattle but he was just a positional coach. Those weren't his offenses.

Funny how a lot of people here did not want either of those guys when they were here, but the same people are upset that we let them leave. Easy to look back and criticize. Honestly Darnold is reminding me of Cousins. Great in the regular season, but when the pressure is on he reverts back to happy feet and int's. We will see how he does if they make the playoffs. Baker seems to have more dog in him.

Yep. His OCs back in his Seattle days were guys like Darrell Bevell, Brian Schottenheimer and Shane Waldron.

I need to go back and review this and the other thread

Give me Aho tomorrow

DC was only full an OC one year and it was with the Bucs on Baker's "bounce back year." That year Baker posted his lowest average yards per attempt outside the the year he played here/LAR at 7.1. This is with Evans and Godwin as his WRs too. When DC left the very next year he went from 7.1 to 7.9. DC does test the deep ball periodically but so far his offenses rely heavily on quick pass first reads. He does try to run to setup the pass, but he is also too quick to abandon the run. He is honestly still very green as a play caller much less one that is also a HC.

You're not demonstrating a very good grasp of the offensive principles here. Coryell: combine power run game with deep downfield passing to keep the box from being stacked underneath WCO: pitch and catch / extended handoffs; throw short to skill players and let them get yards after catch; backs are mostly fast, shifty types but it's good to have a power runner for short yardage and goal line situations; occasional downfield chucks to back the defense off the line but they're not bread and butter

I've primarily looked at the offensive side of things, likely because that's where most of the discussion is centered. Given there's a pretty solid chance we move on from Evero next season, I probably should pay more attention to the other side of the ball.

Every offense Canales has grown up in or ran before being employed here has required a QB with an aggressive downfield nature to them to function properly. There are no exceptions to that....people try to build one here. That is not Bryce's style. and his bland and boring O here requires the same thing here and doesn't have it at the QB spot

Pretty much... Typical WCOs do take occasional deep shots but they're not as reliant on them as a traditional Coryell style would be. Reid and NcNabb back in Philly certainly took shots downfield (and NcNabb was capable) but it definitely wasn't Coryell style.

I'd leave out the stats but agree outside of that. I reference Newton here because there was a long running debate here about tying the team's win-loss record to him.

Yeah, people have this big idea of Canales being some deep shot, big play offensive playcaller but I don't think he has had to dramatically adapt his offense for Bryce. Bryce just stinks and it's also a pretty middling offensive scheme.

Bryce: Point guard, WCO distributor Canales: Walsh style WCO influences You have to learn to differentiate between playing style and ability. Joe Montana and Chad Pennington were similar style-wise But there's a huge disparity between their levels of ability and success.

I don’t think scheme is an issue. We use nickel more than 3-4 and have featured 4 DL plenty of times. Gone are the days of a primary base defense IMO.

Had I just looked and said Kochetkov there was an actual shot at this....

Probably more like the last two than the last three (three seasons ago was Reich). The team is showing legitimate improvement under Canales, But the goal isn't to be better than you used to be. The goal is to be great. I'm not convinced we reach that goal with Bryce.

I think statistics, results and the eye test have been a very conclusive and whole picture of what a bad QB looks like.

What if the next DC prefers a 4-3 scheme though?