DaveThePanther2008

I get that, but you don't do it by purposely throwing games. If we traded Burns and Shaq and DJ than we'd probably lose all our games regardless of how hard we try. Right now, we traded a big money RB for several picks. So far that's it. Until we do that, this team is still trying to win as many games as they can. Why can't anyone see that. Do you really think that the players want to give up. Do you think Wilks will go along with trying to lose and lose any chance ever again at being a HC?

I grasp perfectly fine with what you are implying. You want to give up the season and I don't. Nor do the players. So who isn't grasping the concept?

You're another one changing the argument. The argument was to lose as many games as possible to get that #1 pick. I'm done with this conversation. Bottom line I win, you lose. The Panthers will continue to try to win every game possible regardless of what the fanbase wants. They'll take whatever get as far as draft position after the season. Panther's aren't tanking. You'll just have to swallow that pill and get over it.

You mean like Mayfield or Darnold.

Not moronic at all. Tanking and wanting to tank is Moronic. So who truly is the MORON. Clearly not me.

You can also find Mahomes and Allen in the middle or maybe a Lamar Jackson at 32. Tanking does nothing but instill a losing mentality. It also prevents good Free Agents from wanting to come to a loser.

Guarantee that we'll draft a franchise QB and I'll be onboard with the Tanking. You can't, simply can't. If your GM is worth his salt he'll find one.

Not getting emotional. I just love it when you tankers lose the argument you change the perimeters.

Well before you gut a team you have to get rid of the cancer that was killing it. We did that 2 weeks ago when Tepper finally fired Rhule. Wilks has this team fighting for their season. Look if Baltimore can win with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco, Tampa can win with Brad Johnson. The one thing they have in common is a great defense. Our defense is pretty damn good and I want to see them try.

The argument has been winning the ultimate prize the Super Bowl. You guys that want to tank so bad are facing the reality that Tanking does not guarantee a Super Bowl nor does it guarantee a Franchise QB.

NO NO NO NO NO, don't change the argument. The argument is winning Super Bowls.

BS Nobody is nitpicking anything. Manning was a shell of himself when he was with Denver. A game manager. He was not the MVP caliber QB he was in Indy. The nitpicking is more on your side. You're using his past as justification Denver won the Super Bowl. Their defense won that Super Bowl with some help from the NFL. Just to satisfy your argument 3 QBs (both Mannings) since Elway in 97 and 98. Now what?

Tell me who that is? This ought to be fun. None of the QBs in this draft class scream Franchise.

Tell me I'm wrong. Manning was on the downside of his career and played poorly in the Super Bowl. Denver's defense won that game. Remember Von Miller was the MVP not the traditional QB winning the honor. The Colts could have stayed with Manning after all he won (Goodell going away present) in Denver. He was a free agent. That's no different than us signing Stafford or Baker. Their move paid off, ours didn't.

It's a valid argument. Stafford didn't get it done with his original team and Manning was pushed out of Indy. You have to go back to 2011 season to find a QB that was drafted #1 that won a SB with the team that drafted him. You can argue that Manning and Stafford were #1 picks but Manning only won one with his original team and Stafford barely made the playoffs once in a while. If you go back even further Peyton is the only other 1st rounder to win the Super Bowl since John Elway with Denver in 1997 and 1998 seasons. So tanking for #1 is stupid and guarantees nothing.

Win now? IDK but I do know they are trying to win now. It's not too late to turn this season around. Teams have won the Super Bowl with a game manager. Not saying we are there yet, but anything is possible. As a far as Foreman getting reps you'll have to ask Rhule. While you're at it ask why Bozeman wasn't starting. We didn't go into the season thinking Walker was the guy but we didn't go into the season in 2003 thinking Jake was the man. Stranger things have happened. I will say that if we can sustain drives and point some points on the board our defense can hold their end of the bargain. Our defense has played well most of the games but because the offense couldn't stay on the field they gassed out. I really like this defense and defense wins championships. I know it is a huge long shot but like I said stranger things have happened. I guess I am not in the position now to give up on the season. Never have. I've always held out hope until we were mathematically eliminated. In the NFC South this year that won't happen until the end of December.

You forget to mention our best game also included Bozeman starting at center. I don't think it was a coincidence that our best game so far running the ball came with Bozeman at center. I love that Foreman is not a running back that goes down on the first hit. He's bruiser. I also think Hubbard is a perfect complement to him. If we can pound the rock. Play Action is going to give our young WR corps to make plays.

i usually see eye to eye with you but, I think we may have signed Foreman with the knowledge that we might trade CMC later in the year. We gained several picks that will help this team if we use those picks correctly. We ran the ball extremely well yesterday and if that formula works as the season progresses signing Foreman was a brilliant move. If PJ can move the ball like he did yesterday and doesn't make a ton of mistakes we have a defense that can help us win. That's our goal to win, If we make it over .500 we could actually be looking at our 1st back to back winning seasons next year. For the record, who's our top QB in this draft? Who is Mr. Franchise?

ANY GIVEN SUNDAY

If you are a shitty team than you will get what you deserve. No one on that team from the front office to the last man on the PS is going to stop trying to get better. If we lose, then we lose but they are going to keep trying to win. As fans, we have to take what they give us. What gets me is every one of the QBs in this draft are not surefire Franchise QBs. There isn't a Peyton Manning scream to be the #1 pick. There will most likely be a QB we would consider if we win a couple of games and miss the #1 pick.

So tanking isn't an option.

You're invited to the locker room to tell the players you've decided it's important for them to lose so we can draft a possible savior in the 2023 draft.

Jake was a gunslinger and a big time competitor. He was pretty consistent and 2004 with all those injuries really screwed up a chance for back to back winning seasons. I get it, I would love to have a 10-15 year QB but tanking doesn't guarantee it. What if we draft #1 and he's a bust. Then we tank again for the #1? It's a crapshoot. Maybe we should tank the next 5 years and draft Manning's nephew. You do your best every year and do your homework and we'll eventually have that QB. I'm too lazy to go back and look but Allen, Mahomes, Herbert, Rodgers, Brady, Brees and others were not the #1 pick. The GM that does his homework will find that QB.

We've got the best defense in our division and can beat everyone left on our schedule. If we played like we did yesterday, who knows what will happen.

Why in the world would we take a player that was benched. They were figuring they could get the super talented CMC and dump their problem child in our laps. I hated to see CMC go because I hate the 49ers. That hatred goes all the way back to our time in the NFCW before the change in 2002. Most believe that we got the better end of the trade. SF believes they are on the cusp of a Super Bowl and CMC might be their ticket. I'm not so sure. Jimmy G is hot or cold, nothing inbetween. Shanihan may scheme plays for CMC but he'll be taking food off the table for others on that team. That might not go so well. I will pull for 49er loses each we. The more loses the more valuable our picks become.