SmokinwithWilly

Relying on a guy that couldn't stay on the Raiders offensive line as our primary backup is beyond scary.

I don't even have this view specifically regarding Bryce. It's my overall view in general. Teams rush these rookie QB into service before they're ready, then keep the seasoned vet backup/mentor who isn't much more than a QB coach himself at that point of his career. With a few rare exceptions, I think the best course for most would be to be drafted, sit a year behind a vet QB to learn, THEN get handed the reigns to the offense. Unfortunately, the ridiculousness of these QB contracts and the success now pressure these coaches/GMs are under don't lend itself favorably to that scenario.

Always be developing a #2 with potential to be a #1 in an emergency. I get the reliable vet QB for a few games angle, but if your QB goes down early on, do you want to just toss a season away like Cinci, pull a Patriots/Cassel or lightning in a bottle with Foles and Philly. Can't do that with guys like Dalton and Pickett. Bryce sustains major injury, the season is over. I'm a competitive person and I don't see how you can just be comfortable with that potential outcome year in and year out.

Yep. We don't even know if Icky will ever play again. Hard to build around a guy that could easily have just had a career ending injury.

It all depends on what damage was found and how well the surgery takes. I think trust is going to be a huge factor. As someone who's had multiple knee injuries, it takes a while to feel safe doing everything without that splinter of doubt in the back of your mind again. I can't imagine what that would feel like for a NFL players.

I'm not an NFL scout obviously, but to me, his side to side footwork looks clunky. Instead of the quick, short step, almost glide like movement that you see from the true elites like Ogdon, it looks like he plants and anchors as he moves with each step. He can be heavy footed. He has the size and mass to do that and it might work for him against bull rushers, but the quick edge guys I think will present a problem. Watch game videos of Proctor vs guys like Ogdon, Joe Thomas, Tyron Smith, or Trent Williams, and just watch from the knees down. It's pretty interesting the difference in the way they move their feet. I'm not saying he won't be able to improve it, I just think that could be part of what gives some of that doubt. It does to me.

I suspect he'll get an opportunity at tackle and end up getting pushed inside to guard. That much weight it's just hard on your knees constantly having to go side to side and plant and leverage. Kind of reminds me of Mekhi Bechton. Huge guy, 360 lbs, knee injuries, and I'm sure his weight played a part in them. Just a risk I wouldn't want to take at 19.

I honestly wouldn't mind taking them both. We need bodies and depth at the C/G position is certainly something we haven't had in a very long time.

I don't see the lateral quickness there to handle speed rushers. He could surprise, but I am very suspect of Bama players at certain positions. Top draft classes every year playing against inferior talent. The gap closes too much when they reach the NFL.

I don't believe in hiring coaches that don't get an interview request from another team but it is what it is.

Measurements only take you so far. I remember Rhule passing on Slater because of arm length even though his film against elite college edge rushers was dominant. He said might be a guard here, right after being named an all pro LT. Obviously you want longer arms, but Proctor is right, you can't ignore the film.

2nd preseason

I'd be happy making millions just to sit on the bench.

I agree with that. Moving 1 or 2 spots up, ok, depending on the cost. Moving to 1 from 9, nope. Moving to 1 from 20, I don't even want to know what that would cost. Cheap rookie contracts are the only way to really be competitive. You have to hit on your picks at impact positions to have a chance for a deep playoff run year after year. Bills and the WR group are a perfect example. Elite QB, no one to catch it.

Brissett's stats, 280.5 YPG, 1.96 TPG, and .67 IPG, averaged out to 16 games would have been 4488 yards, 31 TDs, 11 Ints. He also had a higher YPA and completion %. You can't just dismiss stats like that and say that they don't count, because they do. That's good QB play, regardless of what the team record is. A QB that did that during the season could have competed with Bryce in camp. You think if Bryce missed is game and Brissett comes in and does that, Bryce is getting his job back? Ain't happening. And if you think it is, you're the one who's dreaming, not me.

Dalton did have decent numbers that game but he was under immense pressure in Seattle in the rain. If I remember correctly, Zavala gave up 14 QB pressures that game alone. That's inexcusable and the position certainly needed to be addressed. But just think of what we could have done with a center like Frazier, JPJ, Linderbaum, or Humphrey. I realize Dan didn't have the opportunity to draft all these guys. But having a stud in the shortest route to the QB calling protections for the other guys, that's how you build for any QB to run an offense. I'm an offensive line guy. It's my favorite group on the field. I call it fat man ballet. It's a combination of quick feet, balance, bend, strength, reflexes and pure grit. Center is your core leadership on the field, tackles are a combination of finesse and strength, and guards, they're angry dudes that get to have way too much fun hitting people.

I'm ok with doing it if it's the final piece to going all in, as long as you're legitimately in a position to do so. Rams trading 2 1sts and a 2nd for Burns when they desperately needed an edge rusher to be a top contender for a Lombardi. Not a fan, but I get it. Rings are more important than picks, but they were missing one or 2 pieces to be dominant on both sides of the ball. Trading 2 1sts for Parsons when GB wasn't on the verge of greatness, an overpay in my estimation.

Brissett 3366 yards 23/8 41.2 QBR in 14 games, starting 12. Bryce 3011 23/11 47.6 QBR starting 16 games. Let's not pretend Bryce was a dominant force at the QB position. And I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying about getting a QB2 with the potential to be a QB 1. None of those QBs were taken to be a QB1, but they became that anyway when given the opportunity. Develop a QB2 and develop him into a QB that could be a QB1. If he does and you end up trading him as a potential starter to another team for a 1st or 2nd, great. If you keep him, great. Either way, he's still an asset to the team. There's nothing wrong with developing assets.

We're in a unique position where our starting QB is at the bottom end of the league in performance. A backup like Brisset last year would have challenged Bryce for the starting role, hell, he might have taken it given how he performed last year. He wouldn't have challenged a Mahomes or a Burrow, but the need of a QB2 with the potential to be a long term QB1 if need be is now pretty apparent after significant injuries derailed their respective seasons. After we've established our long term starting QB, keep trying to develop a QB2 with potential to be a QB1. Don't want to end up in KC or Cinci situation.

I'm not speaking about this QB room alone. This needs to be a policy. I've said before as much as I despise Belichek, he always worked on developing a QB2 that was capable of being a QB1. Brady, Cassel, Jimmy G, all backups that became starters for NE or elsewhere. Personally, I'm not a fan of just having a "backup". Every player is one injury away from ending their career. I would much rather be proactive than reactive with the most important position on the field.

No matter what we still need a QB2 with potential to be a QB1. Keep throwing QBs at the wall until we find someone who sticks.

I'm one of the ones that won't let it go because it didn't solve the problem. We didn't address the center position which was a huge mistake. We were in position to easily take 2 or the top IOL. Instead of drafting JPJ over XL or Frazier over Brooks, we relied on an oft injured guard to center conversion and lo and behold, it failed as predicted. XL looks like a 1 year college wonder and an injured Brooks hasn't even surpassed Eric Shelton. Bryce was also benched for poor performance, so the issue that many claimed was solely bad oline play wasn't. It didn't fix him bailing out of tight pockets because of being unable to see the field or him refusing to work on his atrocious footwork. Then there's the $$$. Lewis got a good guard payday. Hunt got a tackle payday. Pay tackles, draft guards, if you can. I have no issues addressing problems through FA. It was not addressing C at all that's been the issue and still has been. Ryan Kalil was the anchor of our offensive line. We had years of solid center play and it showed. Now we're still piecemealing the center position with an expensive oline and it's still a shitshow. Why? Because the player responsible for what happens on the line presnap has little to no experience doing it. We did acquire a FA center this year finally. We'll see how much that impacts the line. Spending on a center, whether it be through draft or FA is not bad. It's not a position that can have anyone just thrown in with no drop off in performance. A great center lifts the play of the guards on each side. I don't like how we've built the line because we've ignored the hinge pin that everyone counts on every play. And the reality of the situation is, it didn't solve the actual problems with Bryce because those have nothing to do with the oline.

If we go all in and sell out with Bryce as our QB, it will even more entrench the idea that Tepper is at minimum running the QB room for me. Now i could be wrong and Dan really is that confident in Bryce all by himself, but nothing this team has done in the past 3 offseasons leads me to believe that there hasnt been some noise from big T. He's admitted that he walks through the office making his opinion known. To me, Bryce's output has just not generated that kind of confidence that we are playoff worthy other than against the Rams. Against the SB champs, just damn.

I hope we're not going all in this year. We couldn't outright win our own division with a losing record. We had 2 anomalous wins. Typically you aren't going to win scoring 13 and have your opponent have an absolute train wreck offense. Also, a team scoring 16 on 6 trips to the red zone is not normal either. I'm not trying to be a pessimist. We're not there. Bryce isn't there. Most of the year our offense legitimately struggled and the missing piece wasn't a TE. Keep building through the draft and reasonable FA. When we have a team that's on the edge of being able to make a legitimate SB run, then go all in. Otherwise, going all in right now feels like another Bryce situation. Sell out and pray. That's not how consistent winners are built.