Mr. Scot

And there's domino number one. That likely means Daboll gets the Giants head coaching job, although I suppose a surprise is possible. Gotta figure it's highly possible he takes Ken Dorsey with him.

My understanding is that Rhule is an "executive" type coach. His position assistants coach up the players and his coordinators do the heavy lifting on gameday. And that style can work just fine, if you know what you're doing when it comes to picking your staff. Rhule mostly kept his college guys in place. Likely on the belief that "football is football", which is roughly akin to thinking the guy at your local Y can teach basketball just as well as Phil Jackson. I'm personally more comfortable with a guy who understands the X's and O's, the ins and outs, the flow of a game and such, and all at an expert professional level. Clearly, that's not Rhule. If the next coach is an executive type as well though, I'll be okay with that...as long as he's smarter than our current one.

Wow I like McCown a lot. I actually think he might have a bright future in coaching. But come on, this is way too soon.

Jackson's also not the same player since Rivera dismantled him.

I could agree in part, but I don't think Matt Rhule knows what he's doing when it comes to offensive player evaluation in general. He might be a little better on defense, but the overall reality is that he doesn't know how to build an NFL team. A college program? Sure. But shaping an NFL program and coaching in an NFL game are tasks that are just over his head.

Have our previous two starting quarterback choices failed due to bad luck or the fact that they were poor choices? I'm sure Matt Rhule would tell you they were just bad luck. But then attributing failure to bad luck has long been a way to give dumb teams an excuse for making dumb choices. There's an old quote from someone saying they noticed the harder they worked, the luckier they got. It's valid.

That made me raise an eyebrow too

To be fair, whether you think this clip represents a good example of it or not, it is pretty well accepted that Kyle Shanahan is an offensive genius. And obviously, the reason why that's presented in this thread is to lament the fact that our head coach, well... isn't

Relevant tidbit from the Athletic mailbag thread... A personnel official with another NFC team said the Panthers’ top four trade chips are Christian McCaffrey, receiver D.J. Moore, defensive end Brian Burns and linebacker Shaq Thompson. And though Fitterer said he’s not looking to trade McCaffrey, he indicated he would listen to offers for everyone, the All-Pro running back included.

There's a couple of different possibilities here... Gruden's a bit of a control freak (no shock) and his system is a tad rigid sometimes. That could actually be to Darnold's benefit. What the Gruden version of the WCO is also known to be though is complicated. As far as that benefiting Darnold, not so much.

You can attribute it to luck if you want, but I'd say some teams have proven to be an awful lot "luckier" than others.

Some excerpts from Joe Person's latest (link) _____________________________________ On Rhule's job security... From what I’ve been told, Rhule is handling the OC interviews himself, which would seem to be an odd task to give a guy you were about to fire. I also don’t think the Panthers would have Rhule make a couple of appearances on Charlotte sports talk radio last week if he were on his way out. _____________________________________ On the deafening silence from David Tepper... My sense is Tepper doesn’t feel like he has anything to say. Obviously, he’s not pleased with the results. But even before he hired Rhule, Tepper referenced Rome not being built in a day — then hired a coach known for methodically rebuilding broken programs. I’ve asked the PR staff about making Tepper available and will continue to do so. But I wouldn’t read too much into the silent treatment. _____________________________________ On possible options at QB... If the Watson sweepstakes get too rich or the former Clemson QB wants to play somewhere else, the Panthers could pivot if another proven passer becomes available. But with Sam Darnold under contract next season at $18.9 million, the Panthers have to be sure they’re actually upgrading — Derek Carr would qualify; Jimmy Garoppolo, not so much — or else they’re back in the same boat as last season when they arguably would have been better off keeping Bridgewater. The draft is a possibility, and Rhule’s ties to Pickett can’t be ignored. _____________________________________ On the likelihood of Haason Reddick getting an extension... Barring some creative solutions from salary-cap manager Samir Suleiman, the Gilmore vs. Jackson debate figures to be an either/or proposition. I’d probably lean toward Jackson — he’s four years younger than Gilmore — as long as his price doesn’t get too steep. With Fitterer and Rhule making it clear the priorities are offensive line and quarterback, that might mean Reddick gets squeezed out... The Panthers value Reddick as a pass rusher and a leader, and there’s a natural fit in Phil Snow’s defense for the former Temple player. But it might not make financial sense. _____________________________________ On what position Brady Christensen ends up playing... Rhule and Fitterer both said nice things about Christensen and left open the possibility that last year’s third-round pick could be the left tackle of the future. But they also made sure to point out Christensen’s versatility, with Rhule saying he’s confident Christensen will start … somewhere. But given what we’ve heard from Rhule previously about Christensen’s arm length and the fact that this is a draft loaded with talent at the tackle position, I’d bet they draft a tackle high and slide Christensen inside to guard. _____________________________________ On potential trades for draft picks... The rest of the Panthers’ draft inventory includes a fourth, two fifths, a sixth and a seventh. It’ll take some draft-weekend magic for Fitterer to take that chicken slop and make chicken salad. It could mean moving players. A personnel official with another NFC team said the Panthers’ top four trade chips are Christian McCaffrey, receiver D.J. Moore, defensive end Brian Burns and linebacker Shaq Thompson. And though Fitterer said he’s not looking to trade McCaffrey, he indicated he would listen to offers for everyone, the All-Pro running back included.

Hadn't looked previously because there wasn't any indication outside of the original rumor, but checking Gruden's background he and Rhule actually have some assistants in common. TE Coach Brian Angelichio was previously with Gruden in Washington. Former QB Coach Jake Peetz was with him there for a short time as well (as a QC coach in 2014). Plus as previously mentioned, Tony Sparano was part of the Jacksonville staff when Gruden was OC there. Heck, he even worked with one of his competitors for the OC job. Ben McAdoo was Jacksonville's QB coach in 2020. Gruden has a couple of connections to Scott Fitterer too. Fitterer's old colleagues Scot McCloughan was the GM who hired him in Washington. We also worked with offensive assistant Shane Waldron who later moved on to Seattle.

Fair point that Dalton would be more affordable, though I don't necessarily think Cousins next contract is going to be quite as lucrative as his prior one.

Smart teams often can get the right guy with just one pick, and not necessarily just a super high pick. Look at where Aaron Rodgers and, oh yeah, Tom Brady were drafted (among others). Now that doesn't mean you can't trade up or something like that, but again, if you can get there without having to do that, it's better. It's also frequently true that smarter teams take advantage of dumb moves made by not so smart teams. Take for example that the Chargers were able to get Justin Herbert in part because the Dolphins passed on him. These are basic facts. Not sure why you have an issue with any of that other than that you just want to argue.

So basically, stop offering different points of view from yours? Isn't that kind of what a discussion is? Yes there are teams that use multiple picks or players. There are also teams that use just a single pick. Whatever method you choose though, none of it matters if you don't make the right call on who to take. That's why being smart is important. But again, if you can do so while expending fewer resources, resources that could be used to shore up other areas of the team, then yes that makes you smarter. It's not complicated.

It's quite possible the play was designed in a way that it could potentially draw a flag in certain coverages or against more physical defenders. Some OCs have been known to do stuff like that. I certainly wouldn't put it past Shanahan. Working the ref would increase your chances.

Our last two quarterback decisions were signing Teddy Bridgewater and Sam Darnold. Would you suggest their failure was just "bad luck" or does it point to a problem evaluating the quarterback position?

Callahan is the Browns OL coach. It'd be a lateral move. Marrone would be good. Worth noting the Assistant OL Coach in Jacksonville was our own Tony Sparano, so there's that.

First domino could fall tomorrow.

Doesn't matter how much experience Rhule has. Some guys just aren't cut out for it.

Appreciated. She's braver than I am when it comes to this stuff.

I'd take him as a quarterback coach. More than one person has raved about him in that role. Speculation is that he'll be a head coach at some point in the future. Might be a little soon for that right now.

Right now, everyone's just waiting for the first domino to fall. Once that happens, the whole thing could get all kinda nuts

When you started talking about Jay Gruden, I was expecting the conversation to be about Kirk Cousins.