Seltzer

I'm excited to have other guys in here old enough to remember Nick Goings. Goings almost pushed us back into playoff contention in late 2004 after Davis & Foster went down, and in addition to being a solid ST player, also had some great rushing performances when he was needed.

Great point. Not including CMCs numbers as receiver is like when people didn't include Cam's rushing totals when talking about his QB play. It understates just how big on an impact they had on the game. CMC really might have been both our best rushing & receiving threat from 2019-2021. That 3 year stretch really was incredible. That kind of usage is catching up to him though IMO given all the injuries. I read an Niners article earlier talking about CMC looking like hes lost a step since his Achilles injury. Granted, he'll probably have an incredible game against us on MNF, but football is just inherently too violent to escape unscathed after the kind of usage CMC has had. One great thing about Dowdle is that hes a proven RB who still doesn't have a lot of mileage

Exhibit A for why WR depth is so crucial.

In retrospect he was probably right, especially given how badly the Oline played and all the injuries. If that were the case, I wonder how much of it was Reich not thinking Bryce was ready vs his realization that the rest of the offense sucked, injuries, etc. Objectively, though, this team gave up a lot to get Bryce, so i understand the side of playing him immediately too although that was obviously a disaster, some on Bryce and a lot not IMO. However, its Year 3 and there is the adequate infrastructure on offense to perform at the same level he did down the stretch last year, and that should absolutelybe the expectation. Many great QBs have had rough starts to their careers, but statistically, if a guy isn't playing at a franchise level by Year 3 they probably won't. There should be pressure on everyone this year to perform, and none bigger than on Bryce. We are in the middle of the worst stretch in franchise history in terms of on-the-field performance. I have an 11 & 13 year old, and neither have a living memory of a good Panthers team. It effing sucks. The fanbase is mostly either apathetic or pessimistic, and as much as I razz you on here, a lot of the pessimism has been richly earned. Sometimes I think you are on the far side of the pessimism, but in all honesty I understand (most) of it lol even if I'm playing devils advocate. This fanbase deserves a product we can be proud of this year. I do think on paper this team has improved dramatically over where we were 2 years ago, but there are still a lot of unknowns. I'm tired of arguing about a losing team and I know you are too. Hopefully Bryce plays like he did and there have been enough defensive improvements that we will be arguing, but at least for a winning or at least competing team.

I think Horn is probably going to be used as the primary PR to start the season, and maybe they will incorporate him into some jet sweeps, etc. My hope is that he follows the Smitty path of being the returner and then getting incorporated into the rest of the offense. Separation for the most part was still a major issue last year with our WRs. Hopefully Horn can help with that in the long-term as well as adding much needed speed in general to the WR group

Mahomes didn't play at all his rookie season. That is one massive thing about his career people have somehow memory-holed. The Chiefs had Alex Smith, and decided the best thing would be to give Mahomes a year to develop (even though Smith wasn't great). And obviously the same with Jordan Love, etc. I wonder how different the narrative would be on Bryce if he hadn't had been put in such dysfunction his rookie season. If Bryce hadn't seen the field until the 2nd half of this past year, it would be completely different. Regardless the past is the past, the ink is dry, and he gets a chance to have a say in the narrative of his career this year. He has to perform, and I think he will. And I love Cam to death, and while he probably did have better MVP odds going into 2015 than Bryce does going into this season, no one had Cam seriously on the MVP radar going into 2015.

Every advanced metric has Chuba in the top 10 range last year. I think you're selling him short here. He's not one of the very best backs in the league, but he's earned a spot in that next tier IMO. I definitely think Chuba has proven to be an above average starter. Go look at broken tackles and yards carried over expected. Hubbard would get a lot more buzz if the team were more relevant. Watching Chuba break through 2 tacklers to high step into a game winning TD in OT against the Cardinals was one of the coolest images we've had on offense (besides the Bryce to Tremble pass) in quite a few years. Chuba is almost certainly the best 4th round pick in franchise history. I dont think Chuba has that final gear that CMC or Deangelo Williams had in their prime, but outside of that Chuba is solid as can be. Chuba still has good speed though. That TD run against the Bears where he blew past their entire secondary showed that. I think watching CMCs preparation showed Chuba as a rookie how much work it took, and to his credit, Chuba has always been one of the last guys off the practice field. Given all the almost comical dysfunction of the Panthers since Tepper bought the team, Chuba really is one of the few true organic successes this team has had. A 4th rounder who has turned into a borderline top 10 RB. I think Chuba deserves all his flowers. And pairing Chuba with Rico Dowdle will low-key give us one of the best 1-2 punches in the league. Both these guys had 1300+ combined yards last season. That doesnt happen without a lot of talent. And while they dont have the same 1st round pedigrees that J-Stew & D-lo had, Chuba & Rico could be the best duo since Double Trouble Hopefully they perform well enough we give them a nickname

100%. Him picking his guys so far, whether through the draft or free agency, has been a bust. Evero has been given an incredible amount of rope here really. Other than Bryce (and maybe equally so) is pressure on Evero. If his scheme and coaching is so great, it's time to see it on the field.

It's been depressing AF

It's all good... dont you know we're in Year 7 of this masterpiece now??!!!.. even by Rhule's standards this should be our year... /s

Honest to God with all the crazy poo that has happened since 2020, who knows man... I'm sure as hell leaning in on this one though!

Low-key this is one of the bigger (and best) storyline heading into this season. Football people are being allowed to do their jobs, and hopefully we will see that effort come to fruition in terms of competing for the playoffs this year

Or a restructure. Nobody is paying him $25M a year at this point I would think the team would view this a one-year deal with the option of maybe negotiating something further. There's still a significant chance Evero is gone after this season also which could lead to more inevitable changes. So the ultimate question to me is does the team think there is enough upside for this season to trade for him. I say yes, but I completely understand the argument against it as well.

Wow lol I thought I partied some in my younger days... some of you boys really were wild...

Some of our glorious huddlers have the memory of a goldfish buried in a sea of pessimism & forgetfulness....

Jalen Ramsey would play CB & FS here imo. He won't have any guaranteed money after this year. That is really the only thing that would have been a hold up. As long as we can work out something to make the cap hit palatable for this year (and only give up a Day 3 pick), it seems like a no-brainer. We have plenty of cap, especially if they restructure Moton. Ramsey's contract could be restructured for next year if he works out, or he could be like Gilmore and basically a one-year rental for a 6th. Regardless, either scenario would be worthwhile imo. The idea that this would be cost-prohibitive or not fit the timeline is nonsense. Make it happen Dan!

Evero mentioned Jalen Ramsey's name again in his presser yesterday... There is enough smoke here to at least entertain it. Evero unprompted brought his name up twice in recent weeks on record. I think we are 100% adding a secondary player, and while I still think adding Ramsey is more unlikely than not, an addition is coming and I wouldn't be surprised if it is Ramsey.

Also, I'm really excited about JT Sanders and think he can develop into a big-time receiving weapon. I'm not a draft guy, but I did go back to look more into JT Sanders bc he really flashed as a rookie. Here is a link to his rookie highlights: https://x.com/4MR_Fetti/status/1925264757805797382 It could turn into one of the better draft picks the Panthers have made in the 4th Round. I didn't realize it, but a lot of draft guys had him as their #2 TE last year behind Brock Bowers. I do like what this TE group brings: 1) Tommy Tremble (versatile, more of an H-Back TE) 2) JT Sanders (primary receiving) 3) Mitchell Evans (end of line TE)

We're all learning that while Canales likes to present himself as an open book, he can lie and say nothing via coachspeak with the best of the lol...

My understanding is that Canales was asked about Tommy Tremble. Canales stated he had had back surgery, it was successful, and that they expected Tremble back for Training Camp. The Panthers PR person later clarified that Tremble will start TC on the PUP list. However, PUP during preseason isn't like PUP during the regular season where you definitely will miss time. Tremble can come off the PUP at any point, and to me Canales' statement made it seem like they were expecting him fully back near the start of TC. So, reading the team leaves, it seems like Tremble will be at TC but not practicing at least initially. Canales seemed to indicate he expected Tremble to be a part of TC, so that would indicate they anticipate him being activated around the start of TC. In terms of concern, who can honestly say? Its certainly not ideal that the surgery took place now. However, it does seems like this is an issue the team was fully aware of, and the plan was to rehab without surgery. The concern is obviously Tremble wasn't fully recovering without surgery, now the surgery will at least impact TC, and surgeries are never guaranteed. And back injuries can linger and rarely completely resolve. Still, there are a whole gamut of procedures that constitute back surgery, and while surgery is only "minor" when it's not your own, this doesn't seem to be a major procedure. Tremble is in the building this week, so it's obvious hes not incapacitated or anything. Will just have to wait and monitor. Im excited to see how JT Sanders and Mitchell Evans look in 2 TE sets since they fit more differentiated roles (Sanders is primarily a receiving threat, and Mitchell is more of a traditional TE). I hope Tremble is fully healthy for Week 1. This isn't the flashiest TE group in the league, but I think given the emergence of Sanders, as long as Tremble and Evans can be good role players we should be fine.

100%. And these same people will claim you have an agenda. You can't have it every way. We had the lowest rated defense in the league last year. Statistically the worst ever. By PFF grades (for whatever that's worth- but they are readily accepted, used, and conveyed by most "reputable" sources), the defense was the worst ever. Not only that, PFF rated our receiving corp the worst in football last season. The absolute worst... out of 32 teams. Which is why regardless of the lip service Canales and Morgan paid to the current guys, they knew it would be criminal not to give Bryce more help. People fixating on team stats and not taking these things into context are stupid, plain and simple, and I'm for one thankful they're not running this team (or probably anything for that matter bc they obviously can't discern reality. Again, going back to the eyeball test these Narrative Nancies seem to hate so much, did they not see the windows Bryce was putting balls into? Have the generally not watched much NFL? Please, please show me the film where all these NFL QBs are making throws like this to this point Bryce was "below average" down the stretch compared to them. Bryce made more wow throws in that 3 game stretch of the Bucs, Chiefs, and Eagles than every other QB combined in all the years since since Cam got hurt I genuinely am baffled by people that can watch throws like that and act like it's nothing. I guarantee you Steve Spagnola, Todd Bowles, and and Vic Fangio didn't think it was nothing after watching the little guy torch them with players those teams would be embarrassed to trot out at the skill position players. The national media spent all year making excuses for Mahomes not having elite weapons when he had multiple 1st & 2nd round talents at the skill positions along with future HoFers in Kelce and Hopkins. Bryce wasn't throwing for 300 yards every week with David Moore and Adam Theilen in spite of jaw dropping throws and you want to say the guy played below average. For those people, again, we ain't watching the same sport. And the name calling doesn't change that... The vitriol and projection... it's off the effing charts with these people.

Dude you're all over the place. Bryce definitely played better than average down the stretch last year. That's what I said. I dont think it's controversial, and I think it's true based both on stats and by actually watching him play. He was the 6th rated passer by PFF during the last 8 weeks. In no world is that below average You trying to twist this into something else is a you thing. Have a great night

Below average? Seriously?? That is wild AF My man we ain't watching the same game... And I'm hard-pressed to believe you're watching the same film coaches are either if that is the take you honestly believe... I've been to almost every home game at BOA over the past 20 years... I've seen a lot of bad QB play over the past 7 years. Anybody that wasn't truly impressed by what Bryce did what the cast-offs he had to work with at the end of last year is delusional. His top 3 weapons were a 34 undrafted guy, a 7th round journeyman, and an UDFA rookie... seriously, what are we doing here??!! Some of these takes are beyond outlandish... You admitted yourself you're comparing Bryce to a guy you didn't even watch but are cherry picking stats for... So go back to your eyeballs and make it simple... how much NFL football have you watched my man?? Bc to me and my eyeball test, Bryce blew it out of the effing water down the stretch. What QBs are you watching playing so much better than him that you feel confident in saying "below average?" If you watched that and came away with anything else, we ain't watching the same thing... But beyond the eyeball test, every advanced metric in the book backs it up also... so again, what are you seeing that no one else is?? You think just anybody is going out there and dueling with Mahomes & Hurts with an almost comical inferior supporting cast and doing that? Whatever, to each their own, but it is wild to pull for a team where so many people feel compelled to crap on your QB after he just pulled maybe the greatest in-season turn around in league history and was playing by any eyeball test (for anyone that has watched an appreciable amount of NFL football) or even the advanced metrics for that matter.

Why would we not be contenders? As long as Bryce plays like he did when he came back, we absolutely can be contenders...that is... if the defense plays better... which is why adding someone like Ramsey when we have a QB on a rookie deal and can afford it makes sense IMO. No one thought of the Commanders being contenders last year or the Texans the year before and so on and so forth. Top-end QB play, especially for a guy on a rookie deal, changes everything in terms of timelines. Regardless of what this board thinks, I hope the front office is willing to he aggressive in thks window we currently have with a rookie QB deal

Would absolutely love to have him. I dont think he would require more than a 5th rounder. The biggest thing with his contract is the amount of guaranteed money. As long as they can work out and scenario where the Panthers aren't on the hook for a lot of that, I think it's a no-brainer. The Panthers can come up with $20M at the drop of a hat with restructuring Moton's contract, so there definitely isn't an issue from a money perspective. Jaycee paired with Ramsey along with Mike Jack would give us one of the best CB groups in the league. The one caveat I see is that safety still remains our biggest current weakness. We need a starting caliber S more than CB, simply put. But adding someone like Ramsey would be amazing as long as the compensation made sense. Ramsey could also play for FS snaps also. I also dont understand this nonsense about being seasons away. We have a QB on a rookie deal who was playing at an elite level to end last season. Within reason, now is absolutely the time to make moves like trading for Ramsey.