tukafan21

He'd have been in contention with Odunze to be the 3rd WR taken, definitely would have gone before Brian Thomas Jr (and yes, I know how amazing of a season he had, but he wasn't a can't miss prospect, he had the season MHJ was supposed to have).

Okay, just watched the video now, and I've just gotta say, I love Smitty, but he said one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in a draft projection. He said T-Mac was the #1 WR on his board, but that he could see a scenario where he wasn't the 1st WR taken, which sure, totally fair thing to say Steve, let's hear your explanation for why.... "If someone moves up to get a QB or TE, I can see Golden moving up to be the #1 guy" Wait... what?!?!?!?! If someone trades up to get a QB or TE, you think that will then cause your 4th ranked WR to be the 1st WR taken in the draft?!?!?! I'm sorry, but that is the most asinine explanation for where players will be drafted ever, I honestly don't understand that logic, at all, and it has nothing to do with my guy. Those names could be John Doe and John Smith, and if he says his 4th ranked WR will be drafted 1st because an extra QB or TE was taken due to a trade, I'd be saying the same thing, lol.

There are generally 3 things that can make a player great, being a superior athlete, having unprecedented work ethic/effort, or being extremely fundamentally sound. The elite players who become that due to their work ethic and/or being a superior athlete, generally end up as poor coaches and/or talent evaluators, because the things that made them great can't be coached or easily seen on tape. I'm not saying Steve is right or wrong on T-Mac or any other player, but he is very similar to Jordan in that their athletic ability and their drive to win is what made them greats, and it's also what makes them struggle at talent evaluation. As others have said, he's been right and wrong before, sometimes badly, so I don't really put much stock into his prospect evaluations one way or the other, Panthers GOAT or not.

And other teams allegedly had him faster than that too, but you already know this too, it just doesn’t fit your narrative of him, so let’s ignore that too.

That was just 3 of the 40 teams, some had him as low as 4.46 https://x.com/_ryanfowler_/status/1901696729491083466?s=46&t=LQU3yEizU6WVOcNoJTNyOw Either way, just as I’ve said all year, he plays with more than enough speed for someone of his size, even the low end of those timings is faster than the plodding big man people on here seem to perceive him as.

He just ran a 4.48 at Arizona’s Pro Day, he’s not trending towards the back half of the first round, stop with that nonsense

Even if that were true (and I don't think it will be), the difference between T-Mac and the guys before him that you're referencing, is that he has hands of glue, all those other big bodied WRs we've had over the years that failed, didn't. So even if he struggles to create much separation, his big body and his hands will let him make plays that those other WRs couldn't. I think that's what people seem to forget when looking at him, that he's not KB, or Funchess, or XL, or whoever. He's a guy who has EVERYTHING, except top end speed and quickness. There are very few WRs who truly have it all, in fact, their names are Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss, pretty much almost everyone else had something they were missing, whether it was size, or speed, or hands, or route running, etc, something wasn't ELITE. Which is why I've said his absolute floor is as about the 25th best WR in the league. Because if he never improves upon his speed/quickness one ounce at the next level (which seems unlikely anyways), he's still going to be a more than useful low end #1 or high end #2. He'll be a red zone threat, a downfield jump ball guy, and someone to make the contested catches in the middle to move the chains. Basically, he's Mike Evans, the guy he's most compared to. Evans isn't some elite separator, he doesn't have burner speed, but all he does is compile stats and score TDs because he's so good at making contested catches. Evans has a little more bulk on him, but T-Mac is a little more athletic, in particular making guys miss and getting more YAC. Which is why I see him as a perennial Top 10 WR and someone who will be challenging to be considered a Top 5 WR in his prime. I just went and looked out of curiosity.... In their full college careers, those 3 guys had... 1,715 yards in 3 seasons for Funchess, 1678 yards in 5 seasons for XL, and 1,506 yards for Benjamin in 2 seasons. T-Mac has 1,402 and 1,319 in each of his last two seasons after 702 as a Freshman for 3,423 yards in 3 years. I think the Panthers fans who are concerned about T-Mac are more afraid of our past with big WRs and just forgetting that T-Mac is just on an entirely other level than any of them were.

Except I still think he ends up turning into a slot WR to extend his career well into his mid 30's. He keeps his body in amazing shape and he's savvy, he could very well turn into a true elite slot WR from 30-35 and be a difference maker on a contending team because of it. It's why I always hated trading him, because I think he'll have that 2nd life in the NFL after his RB days are behind him. He basically would turn into what Deebo has been for them the last few years, except I think he'd do it even better.

We need to stop taking WRs in the 2nd round, think we'd have a much better chance on hitting on a defensive player or maybe a Center in the 2nd. If we're drafting WRs, it should be a high 1st rounder or wait until the 4th to take flyers on the smaller quick twitch types and hope that pans out. Just far too many 2nd round WRs that don't pan out these days, especially when we're drafting them.

I get the TD's and I pointed it out, but like I said, when Burrow had more than double the TD's than Geno had, I think Higgins increased TDs compared to DK was more a product of Burrow and the Bengals offense than because of him vs DK as WRs. When one of their QB's finished 4th in MVP voting despite missing the playoffs and the other was just traded for a late 3rd round pick and replaced by Sam Darnold, I think that's a tough narrative to brush aside to just look at raw stats as well. Again, swap DK and Higgins last year, do you honestly believe DK wouldn't have put up better stats than Higgins did? Contracts and trade compensation aside, I'm taking DK over Higgins 100 out of 100 times, there is no debate about it for me.

Not necessarily, they very well could just be waiting on the players who will get cut in the coming weeks/months as cap casualties and wanting to have the cap room to be able to offer more than other teams (likely our best shot at finding immediate pass rushing help for next year at this point). Also wouldn't be the end of the world to try and roll some cap into next offseason to have more space to go after bigger FA's. That's a better move than signing guys who really won't help much more than whoever else we can get on minimum or rookie deals.

Uh, what now?!?! Just doubling down on nonsensical statements? In 2023 he was 4th in the nation in yards and 9th in receptions, then followed that up in 2024 by being 3rd in Yards and 14th in receptions, not to mention all the absurd highlight reel plays he's made over his career. Was a 2nd Team All P12 as a Sophomore and then Consensus 1st Team All American, 1st Team All Big 12, and Biletnikoff finalist as a Junior. Say you have specific concerns that you feel will limit his upside in the NFL and keep him from being a blue chip player, at least that would be a fair statement/viewpoint to make. But to say he hasn't "proven anything at the college level to think he can produce in the NFL" is just an utterly absurd statement to make. He has a very high floor, even if he's someone you personally don't see being a Top 10 WR in the league (which I honestly think he will be), his floor is still going to be as a Top 25 WR.

No, I'm pointing out the myriad of reasons that I don't think it's even debatable. Higgins is 1 year younger, that's the only thing I'm giving him an advantage over DK in, if that's all he has on his side of the ledger, then I don't see where there is a debate.

Is it though? Even looking at just this past year, DK played 3 more games and had 81 more yards than Higgins had, but he also did it on less catches, with DK averaging 15 yards per catch and Higgins with 12.5. Yes, Higgins had 10 TDs to DK's 5, but I'd say that was far less about the WRs than the QBs, seeing as Burrow had 43 TDs (and only 9 INTs) to Geno's 21 TDs (and 15 INTs). Swap the two of them last year and DK puts up better stats with Burrow as his QB than Higgins did, no doubt about it in my mind. DK has also only missed 3 games in his career, Higgins has missed 5 in each of the last 2 seasons. People here complain about our WR speed (and it's many people's biggest issue with T-Mac in the draft), but Higgins ran a 4.59 40 and DK ran a 4.33. DK has only played one more season than Higgins but he has 1,730 yards and 14 TDs more than Higgins, despite playing with the ghost of Russell Wilson and Geno Smith, while Higgins has had Burrow. To me, there is no debate, DK is a significantly better WR than Higgins. Give him Burrow as his QB during his career and his numbers would dwarf what Higgins has put up.

lol, you know it's just easier to say you know nothing about T-Mac than to spout dumbass stuff like "he won against inferior defenses" But hey, at least you openly tell people you don't know what you're talking about so it's easy to dismiss what you say. In 15 games against ranked teams he had 90 rec, 1,227 yards, and 9 TDs, with 4 of the 15 games during his Freshman year when he only had 205 yards. So he still had over 1k yards in the 11 games against ranked teams his final 2 years. Yes, I know there is a difference between ranked teams and good/bad defenses, but I'm not going to spend the time to look up the defensive ranking of every team he played in his 3 years, this is just quicker and easier, but it's far more evidence against your point than in support of it. All of which is also to just ignore that he was almost never single covered this past season, had horrible QB play, horrible coaching and play calling, with no other offensive weapons to take defensive attention away from him, and he was still 3rd in the nation in yards. Even if it was against inferior competition like you think, he still had EVERYTHING stacked against him and put up elite numbers.

Exactly, if you're giving up both picks and cap room at the same time, it needs to be for a certifiable elite player. Higgins doesn't fit that bill, not by a long shot when you factor in his health problems. Hendrickson on the other hand, while I'm not a fan of giving up both picks/cap at the same time, at least he would make a ridiculous impact on our defense next year. He was a 1st team all pro this past year, had 17.5 sacks each of the last 2 seasons and has 13.5 or more in 4 of his last 5 seasons. If we can get him without giving up our 1st and with a reasonable contract (as in, not re-set the market but maybe just a Top 10 pass rusher contract), then draft T-Mac at 8, it would improve our team SOOOOOOOO much more than trading for Higgins, giving him Top 5 WR money, and then using 8 on an edge rusher who will take a few years to make a serious impact.

And DK is a better WR

My concern is more about the contract we’d have to give Higgins and that I don’t think it’s worth that by itself, let alone also losing our 2nd rounder on top. If a team trades for him, Higgins is getting a Top 5, if not Top 3 WR contract. He’s not worth that

Better be for Hendrickson and not Higgins

Well that would be just nonsense for multiple reasons. First, even if he was available, the picks and money it would cost us would not be close to worth it, not matter how good he is. Second, there is no way in hell the Bengals are trading the best WR in the league who happens to be Burrow's best friend and college teammate, just ridiculous to think they would unless him and Burrow had some falling out.

WAY smarter move Give up the picks and cap room for him while using 8 on T-Mac who is going to be better than Higgins by 2026 anyways.

Absolutely not. I never thought he was going to be worth the cost of the contract we'd have to give him to be able to sign him. Adding in what the Bengals are going to want in return for him and I'm WAY out. I still think he's more of an elite #2 than a #1 and he has trouble staying healthy, just a hard pass for me. It's wild to me that people would be okay with trading for Higgins and giving him a monster contract, but not drafting T-Mac who is a similar type of player but is younger, will be cheaper, and is going to be better than Higgins in short order anyways. People here seem to be afraid of T-Mac's speed, but don't want to look up that Higgins ran a 4.59 himself, even if he plays faster, he's no burner.

Without looking at it and really only going off seeing your post, odds are their projections had something like 3.4 TDs for Bryce and 0.3 for Dalton, which when you round separately go to 3 and 0, but when you combine them, it then gets rounded up to 4.

We better not be, trading for a franchise tagged player almost always ends up being 1st rounder plus more. Under no circumstances is that an acceptable trade to then give a Top 5 contract to someone who is more like a 15th-ish best WR in the league.

I haven't bothered to look into it for 2 reasons, but I'm not so sure his contract would be bonkers for a team that trades for him. Because the new team doesn't pick up the signing bonus portion or the cap hits that come from that, so depending how SF structured the deal, there is always a chance that it's actually not a bad contract for a team to trade for. But the two reasons that doesn't matter is because if SF is actually willing to trade him, to me, that screams they're concerned about his recovery from the injury and would make me not want him based on that alone. And the second is that if his injury recovery is fine, then in the end, they're not going to trade him anyways, so it's all moot to begin with.