tukafan21

WOW, Rappaport just said the Cowboys have had internal discussions about trading Parsons. Part of me says there is no way I'd ever consider trading for him as it would just cost us too much in draft capital and cap room, but man, him alone could change the prospects of this defense for the next 5+ years in an instant. Parsons + Brown = good luck opposing OL's

Hardest HOF to get into just got even harder, but in a bad way, it's more likely to make the HOF illegitimate than more exclusive, as players who should be in will now never get in. I wouldn't have ever said this a week ago, but I now no longer think Smith ever gets in, this new system is going to create too big of a backlog, his only chance will be with the veteran committee some day down the line. Luke not being a 1st ballot would have been acceptable because of his short career, just not when they didn't have a full class, leaving 2 open spots and not putting Kuechly in is a travesty, and an indication of how dumb this new voting process is.

lol I was just thinking this when reading that other thread that just got started where the guy said he likes a Safety at #8. Yea, I'd love one of those major impact Safeties that we haven't seemed to have in forever, but I don't think there is an Ed Reed in this class, just seems like it would be a waste at #8 to go that way. I'd rather take the TE from Penn State at 8 than go with a Safety, and I couldn't be more against doing that anyways. OL and S might be the only two positions I'd have a serious issue with if we used #8 on those positions, anything else could be justified, I'd even take an elite MLB over either of those two (if there was one we liked enough, but don't think there is this year anyways).

I'm just happy to not see a thread today asking us to trade for Deebo since the 49ers said they're looking to trade him after he asked to be. He can be a useful player on the right team with the right coaching staff, but his contract is just too big for what he is as an actual WR, where he's average at best, in 6 years he's only had over 892 yards once

This is also kills anyones dream of trading for Wilson, as I can't see any way they even consider moving him if they're moving on from Rodgers, as his issue has been Rodgers, not the team in general.

Yup There is no perfect prospect, a weakness doesn't mean he's bad at it, just that it could be better. He’s not doing the things he did in college if he has trouble separating in the way people make it seem on here. People here are still too hung up on the contested catch statistic that popped up on here a few months ago and the other draft busts who were also on the list. They ignored that the next guys on the list would have been I think Chase and Jefferson, or that the reason for so many of the contested catches were due to double/triple teams and not inability to separate. When you’re doubled on just about every snap, it’s hard to not have contested targets, he’s just good enough to still make the plays.

These two aren't even close to the same thing T-Mac has true elite physical capabilities outside of his speed. Bryce still needs to be the biggest physical outlier in the history of the sport to be successful in the NFL. And that's before even considering that for a year and a half of Bryce's career he looked like he couldn't make a CFL team. I'd say T-Mac will make a Pro Bowl before Bryce, but these days it does seem like any QB with a pulse ends up getting named to the Pro Bowl at some point with how often they back out of it and the next one gets named, who ends up also not going and they just keep going down the list. I mean, I like Maye's potential, but in what world is THAT a Pro Bowl season he just had.

In what way does the NFL let everyone in the HOF and that it's too easy to get in? 5 players get in every year (only looking at the modern era voting, not senior committee). There are 7 different types of positions in the league if you group them together as QB, RB, WR/TE, OL, DL, LB, DB. It's also nearly impossible to accurately compare the impact of an elite player at one position to another, QB's aside. How do you really compare the impact of a HOF caliber LB to a HOF caliber WR? It was already the hardest HOF to get into because of those factors and they just made it sooooooooo much harder for players to get into in the future, to the point where players that even the voters would agree should be in the HOF, won't get in. This isn't the Basketball HOF where there are tons of non worthy people who get in. If you make it to the Final 7 of the HOF voting in the NFL, you're more than qualified and deserving to make it. You shouldn't be kept out because 20 of the 49 voters were split between say putting Kuechly or Holt going into the HOF that year over the other, they both should be in. Because it's also not even about being in just the Top 7 of voting, it means you can come in 4th and still not make it because you "only" got 39 of the 49 final votes as those other 10 voted for Holt instead who should have been in years ago, which is just insane.

Smith never getting in would be more of a travesty than Luke not being a 1st ballot, as much as he deserved that honor. I have zero concern about Luke getting in, in fact I'd be shocked if he doesn't get in next year, but I'm genuinely worried this new change will keep Smith out, too much of a WR backlog with the current NFL game being so pass happy, it's going to get real tough for some of these WRs to ever get in.

The more I think about it, the more asinine the reasoning behind this change becomes to me. They said this was done because they wanted it to be more exclusive, but in reality, while it of course does that because it means less people get in, what it really does is make it more illegitimate as there will be clear HOFers who now never get in. Eli Manning for example, I'm not sure he ever gets in now, even though he should be. I realize he was kinda a marginal QB for much of his career, but when you are Top 10 all time in both yards and TDs when you retire and have 2 SBs with 2 SB MVP's, you're a HOFer, period. But how is he ever going to get in with these new rules? He'll never be a 100% of the vote kind of guy, and when put up against the Top 7 finalists, he'll likely always have 10 voters who feel leaving him off their final ballot to vote for the likes of say, a Torry Holt who was more dominant at their position than Eli ever was, is totally fair (and they won't be wrong). The real problem is when you then also get 10 voters who leave Holt off their final ballot for Eli, which again would also be fair, it keeps both guys out that year and adds to the logjam and will only create more vote splitting every subsequent year.

Not really, as the new rule is that you need 80% of the votes from that Final 7 vote to get in OR be in the Top 3 of voting. So there will always be at minimum 3 players from the modern era voting put in every year, even if none get to the 80% mark. But I do think we'll see very few 4 and 5 man classes in the future and it will be mostly 3 man classes, as all it takes is for 20 voters to be split down the middle on the other 4 players in a class to end up tanking all of their chances as you can only lose 10 votes. So 10 vote for the 3 sure fire guys and then 2 of the other 4, another 10 vote the same 3 and then the other 2, all 4 of the others are now kept out. It's sooooooooooo dumb, it doesn't mean they're not worthy of getting in, and every year they put in less than 5 just adds to the backlog and will end up being the reason worthy players never get in during their 20 year window of eligibility.

I've never asked how he's bigger, faster, stronger, I've asked to compare them as players and why you think one is better than the other. If anyone is ranking any player (not even T-Mac related) higher or lower than someone else solely because of what they ran in the 40, then I don't respect their football analysis, sorry, not when you have years of college game tape to watch their game speed. And you can't say people don't do that when so many have literally said "need to see his 40 time to know if I'd draft them at X draft position." I don't care about how fast a player runs a 40, I care about how fast they are in a game, if you can't tell how fast they play watching tape, them running a 4.9 vs a 5.2 in their underwear is meaningless. If a player runs a faster than expected 40, wouldn't it be fair to then ask why they don't run that fast in games? Or if a player runs a slow 40 but runs faster in games, do you really care that their 40 time was slower in comparison? Players all have digital tracking in their pads these days, as I pointed out, T-Mac was clocked at 21.8 MPH at some point during his first 2 years in school, which would have been 8th fastest a player ran in the NFL last year. Mike Evans fastest tracked time in his career was 20.6 (although I'll openly admit I'm guessing they weren't tracking that earlier in this career, but it's what is out there to go on). And I'm not saying that to say I think T-Mac is a burner and will be one of the faster WRs out there, but it's more than enough proof that he has the necessary speed to succeed in the NFL. How can someone look at those data points (and yes, NFL teams have access to all of that) and then say they need to know their 40 yard time without pads or a game situation to be able to accurately judge how they view that prospect? I'm not against more data points, I just put very little to no weight behind things that are a result of non football stuff. If two players have the exact same speed, but one spends 3 months perfecting his get out of the blocks before the combine and the other doesn't, then their 40 yard dash is going to be different, but when it comes down to the game, they're going to have the same speed. See what I'm saying?

I doubt that's it, my guess is that he was only a few votes short of making it in because of his short career. All it takes is 10 of the 49 voters to keep you from the 80% mark and my guess is at least 10 of them voted for Anderson or Holt over Kuechly because they've been waiting and are overdue or Vinatieri because they felt his long career and SB's were more deserving of a 1st ballot than Kuechly with the shorter career and no SB. But this is the problem with the new system, even in years with no clear cut first ballot type to get 100%, every person could get like 72% of the vote or something and then only the top 3 get in, even though there is a backlog of guys who should clearly be in the HOF. Every year they don't put 5 in it just adds to the list of guys who should be in, so dumb, no need to make this HOF more exclusive, it's already so hard to get into.

The worst part about it is I guess they changed the rules because players already in the HOF wanted to make it more exclusive. So.... basically a bunch of guys who were either always going to be HOFers or guys who probably wouldn't have gotten in if under these rules, changed it to now keep out worthy players to make themselves feel like part of an even more exclusive club.

Yea, guys like Smith, Holt, Wayne, etc are screwed, they now have almost no shot at getting in through the normal process, they're going to need ones like Sharpe this year with the senior committee. Just will be too many vote splitting, especially when you get into the years where there are a clear group of 2-4 1st ballot guys, because then the other few guys in the final 7 will all get split votes and likely come up just short of the 80% Like in a couple of years in 2027, you'll have Gronk, AP, and Roethlisberger as guaranteed 1st ballot guys, likely will get 100% of the vote in the final 7. Those other 4 players are all going to be so HOF worthy due to this new system that they're bound to split enough of the vote to keep at least 1 of the possible 2 other spots from getting to the 80% mark, quite possibly both of the other two spots.

Yea, I just posted that I looked it up. And the Top 3 get in even if they don't get the 80%, which again, makes it even dumber, because it's clearly means the 80% can be difficult to get when you're picking between 7 clearly worthy candidates and there will always be vote splitting. This will be the new normal, 3 man classes for what is already maybe the toughest HOF to get into, what a joke.

Just looked it up, I really don't like this change. They vote the list from 15 down to 7 guys, from those 7, the 49 voters select 5 of the 7 and they have to get 80% of that vote to get in. It makes no sense as all it takes is 10 people to vote for one WR and another 10 vote for a different WR, and neither get into the HOF despite them both being in the Top 7 of the overall voting and clear HOF worthy candidates. SOOOOOOOOOOO dumb For what it's worth, the candidates in the Final 7 this year who didn't get it were Kuechly, Holt, Vinatieri, and Willie Anderson, all of who apparently are now automatically put into next year's 15 finalists. What a dumb new system.

Didn't know they changed the rules, what was it in the past? Everyone voted for 5 and just the top 5 in voting got in each year? If that's the case, I don't like the rule as in any year, it could be tough to get the 80% threshold since all 15 of the candidates are super worthy each year, all it takes is for enough vote splitting and it will keep a lot of guys from getting to the 80% mark in a given year. It could make it REALLY tough on any WRs in the future who aren't clear 1st ballot guys (like Fitzgerald) because the others will always end up splitting votes every year.

If you had asked me 20 minutes ago, I'd say there was a 100% chance he gets in next year if he didn't this year. But I'm not so sure now, as there are at least 2 guaranteed 1st ballot guys next year in Brees and Fitzgerald, which only leaves 3 more spots open and still a big backlog of guys who clearly should be getting in. If Kuechly's short career kept him from being a 1st ballot in a 3 man class, I'm not so sure he's a sure thing next year now.

Actually they picked zero, as Sharpe wasn't a modern candidate but on the senior candidate list

Uh.... what now?!?! I can't remember ever not seeing 5 modern era selections, with such a back log of worthy candidates, why did they only put 3 guys in this year? Kuechly is a 1st ballot guy who I could see not giving 1st ballot due to the shorter career, but not if they only selected 3 modern era players, I could have understood him getting bumped into next year, but this is baffling for him to get bumped with a not full class. Reggie Wayne and Torry Holt are a clear HOFers, how is neither getting in with 2 open spots? That also seems like it's a bad sign for Smitty's chances of ever getting in, if they leave 2 spots open and don't put either of those guys in either, I'm not sure he'll be able to get across the line when more HOF worthy WRs start becoming eligible each year moving forward.

I get so frustrated when anyone brings up the combine and factoring it into their draft thoughts, I genuinely think it's pointless, and if anything, hurts more than it helps. I couldn't give a damn how fast you are running in a straight line in your underwear, I don't care what you weigh or bench press, I don't care how high you can jump two footed from a non moving position and slap some sticks. None of those things directly translate to the field, none of them are even the same once you put pads on. It would be like testing NHL players slap shots while wearing shoes and standing on a hardwood floor instead of skates and on ice (bad example, but I think the combine is so flawed that it's hard to come up with good metaphors). Players can "fudge" their combine results by spending the 3 months leading into the combine solely focusing on specific combine testing. Whether it's someone like Bryce last year, who clearly put on a bunch of bad temporary weight so they could alleviate a particular concern of teams (and then doesn't do physical tests because they know they'll struggle due to the weight). Or the guy who spends hours every day perfecting their getting out of the blocks technique to improve their 40 time to change teams opinions of them as there is nothing about it that then translates to the actual game. Sure, it can show their work ethic, but in the end, it still doesn't translate to an NFL game. And if they don't spend the time on that because they're too busy working on their actual craft of being a WR, then it doesn't tell you they have a bad work ethic when their time struggles either. If you have 3 years of video evidence of a player doing something, why would them running a 4.9 or a 5.3 40 time change what you think of that player, when in the end, all that could come down to was how good that player was at firing out of the blocks and getting up to speed from a position no football player lines up in? If you have years of tape of an OL throwing players around, but they struggle to put up great numbers in a traditional bench press, why are you then going to down grade them when there is no time in a football game that you are lying down on your back and seeing how much dead weight you can push straight up over and over again. Decades ago, before every college game had a stupid amount of cameras so you can see every rep of every player from multiple angles, I can see how it would have been beneficial. But not anymore, I think too many teams are putting too much weight into the combine and it shows when all they do is pick high RAS guys who don't pan out (hello Carolina Panthers). This whole argument has nothing to do with my guy, but I have seen so many people say they need to see T-Mac's 40 time to know if they'd like him at 8 or not. To be that's such a baffling thing, you've seen his tape, you either like him or you don't, him running 0.3 of a second faster or slower for something that is only about 5 seconds, from a non football starting position, shouldn't change your feelings towards him one way or the other.

Tiring because I keep proving your talking points wrong with stats, actual data, and what the "experts" said about both players at the same point in their football careers? You're dying on the hill of "Evans prime was as a true elite player" which just by itself, woefully incorrect, T-Mac comparisons aside. I'm not going to go through every player's seasons since Evans came into the league, but I'd be willing to bet money that Evans' best statistical season wouldn't crack the Top 15, maybe not even the Top 20, of individual WR seasons in that same time frame. His BEST season was 96 rec, 1,321 yds, 12 TDs... which likely would have only been tied for the 3rd best WR season this year alone with Amon-Ra's 115, 1,263, 12 stat line and behind Chase/Jefferson's 127/103, 1,708/1,533, 17/10 lines. You're also basically arguing against every player because every player COULD turn out to be a bust, but there is nothing in T-Mac's film or draft profile that suggests he is going to be a bust in general, but even more so when you directly compare him to Evans as a NFL draft prospect as the only knocks you could put on T-Mac is the exact same negatives Evans had. You keep leaning back on what he's done in the NFL, which is just asinine to use when comparing players as prospects. It would be like saying Josh Rosen wasn't a better prospect coming out of college than Tom Brady. If you disregard what either did in the NFL, there isn't a single scout or analyst that ever would say Brady was a better prospect. And yes, I realize the extreme of that example, but the concept is the same, you can't look at a single thing Evans has done in his NFL career if you're trying to just compare them as prospects coming out of college.

Yes, Evans is bigger and stronger, but T-Mac has better hands and more shiftiness (can't think of the proper term there, but you know what I mean). Cool, Evans had a huge game against a #1 ranked team, that doesn't mean he did better against better competition (it doesn't mean he didn't either, but one game doesn't make a career or prospect). Again, T-Mac had solidly better stats in college than Evans had (and that's before even mentioning that Evans had a literal Heisman winner as his QB), so pulling out a single game doesn't mean much (and I'd say the same thing if it was reversed, I don't put much stock into a single game for anyone). Also, you say you're giving the speed a push because we haven't seen T-Mac's combine time yet. So how about this from an article from before this season that said T-Mac's top game speed during his first 2 years in school topped out at 21.8 MPH. Which btw, would have come in at tied for the 7th fastest player speed in the NFL this past season. And for comparisons sake, from a few initial searches, it looks like Evans' top game speed in his career was 20.6 MPH. It's like I've said too many times to count. No, T-Mac doesn't have elite short distance speed, he's 6'5", it would be crazy if he did. But once he gets into his strides, he's shockingly fast for a player of his size and routinely runs away from defenders after the catch (he was 5th in the Big 12 in YAC this year). It's right there in his tape if you spend the time to watch all of it and not just his contested catch highlights.

So you're saying you'll base your opinion of his NFL prospects on his timings at the combine more than the 3 years of tape on him? I honestly couldn't care less about what he does at the combine, and I say that for EVERY player at EVERY position. The combine is the most antiquated and useless tool for evaluating prospects these days. More players blow up at the combine because they're physical freaks, but end up busting because it doesn't translate to the field. Hell, how many players have we taken over the years because of their RAS score from the combine, only for them to end up as just awful actual football players? To me, the combine is good for two things and only two things. Directly comparing QB pure arm talent since it's the only time everything is equal for them. Where they're throwing the same passes, to the same WR's they don't know, and doing it right after each other so it makes it easy to compare their arm ability. And EVERYTHING that happens off the field that us fans don't even get to see, as all the interviews teams have with players can really tell them a lot about who they are as people, and what their mental knowledge of the game is as the teams go through mock film sessions with the players. And I'm not even going to get into the Hunter thing, as most analysts don't rate him over T-Mac if purely going on him as a WR and disregarding him as a defensive player. Plus, he's going to end up as a DB in the end anyways, it's his better side of the ball and he is very slender, I don't think he'll last long at the next level as a WR, he's already taken enough hits to be a 3 year NFL vet, before he even shows up to the draft.