tukafan21

T-Mac should be the pick if he's there, no matter anyone else on the board, and here's why......... I don't think any of the QB's in this class are can't miss prospects, we're still in a re-build, we can't afford to use a Top 5 pick on a questionable QB prospect, we need a can't miss star with this pick. If there was a blue chip pass rusher available, that would be the way to go, but there isn't, best DL available is likely the DT from Michigan. Johnson and Hunter are both elite CB prospects. But we already have Horn who is probably our best player outside of DB and because of that, I just can't get behind drafting a CB with such a high pick, which is the same reason I can't get behind any DT pick either, because of DB on the roster on a big contract. XL has potential, but even his max potential is likely as a really good #2 or a low end #1, not an elite outside #1. After him, all we have in the WR room is Thielen if he's even back, and Coker, who we all like as a prospect, but if he's your 2nd best WR under the age of 35 and with more than 1 year left on the team, then you have one of the worst WR rooms in the NFL, period. So if it's WR, it's T-Mac vs Hunter (as WR) vs Burden, and then again, it's an easy decision for me. Hunter and Burden are both going to be slot WRs in this league, the same way great WRs like Kupp and Godwin work almost exclusively out of the slot. Passing up on a true outside #1 in T-Mac, something we don't have and are near impossible to find anywhere outside of the draft, to take a player who will be a slot focused WR, just makes no sense from a roster building standpoint. T-Mac is 6'5" and 215 lbs and is anything but a slow plodding big WR, he has wheels (no, he doesn't have track speed, but he's going to run a sub 4.5 40 at the combine) and he has plenty of wiggle in his game post-catch to make defenders miss. He has hands like vice grips covered in glue and a catch radius that we probably haven't seen in the NFL since Calvin Johnson. He already runs a complete NFL route tree at all levels, he's just as good running a deep go route for a jump ball as he is catching a 2 yard slant and making defenders miss to pick up the first down. Don't over think it, you take the guy with legit Top 5 NFL WR talent at a position of serious need, more so than any other position of the available players at the top of the draft. Yes, I've openly admitted that I'm an Arizona alum, but it has zero bias in my feelings on this pick. I wouldn't even tell people that if I wasn't so sure about the player he's going to be at the NFL and why he's such a perfect fit for our needs. If he's gone, there are plenty of other prospects that I like, but I don't think any of them have the potential and the perfect fit for our needs as T-Mac does, my alumni connection or not.

The college MVP as you put it has literally 0% bearing on anything, more Heisman winners end up as nothing in the NFL, or just average players, than they do actual superstars. Just looking at since the turn of the millennium, there's only been 4 players who won it that I think you could say were legit superstars in Burrow, Cam, Lamar, and Henry. After that, the next best players are DeVonta Smith, Kyler, Baker, Bush, and Carson Palmer, with Jameis probably being the next one on the list. DeVonta could move into that superstar level, but 5 out of 24 winners turning into superstars since 2000 is a pretty bad number. So no, winning the Heisman has absolutely ZERO affect on a player's NFL prospects, and if you had to say it leaned one way or the other, based on recent history, it would lean towards being a better college player than NFL player. His on field production means a little bit, because obviously, if you can't produce at all, you're not going to be a highly rated prospect. But once you're putting up great numbers, the difference between a few hundred yards or a handful of TDs, is completely negligible and meaningless when it comes down to grading out prospects for the NFL (for example, T-Mac has more yards, Hunter has more TDs, and Burden has had a down statistical year, but I put zero bearing on any of those 3's actual stats when looking at them as NFL prospects). But that first one you mention, his film, is just a JOKE for you of all people to mention. All you ever talk about is his two way play, his stats, and his Heisman candidacy, NONE of which mean anything. You can't spend months talking about that stuff and then now try to say, "wait, how can you say his film doesn't mean anything?" Film is all that matters, and specifically, how it translates TO THE NEXT LEVEL... NOT... how many stats it helps you accumulate in college, because college stats are always just weird, it's the nature of the game at that level, you can compile stupid stats, but not be an NFL player and you can struggle statistically and end up a superstar in the NFL (again, look at Mahomes' college career, it wasn't all that great until his last year and even then he didn't get any Heisman votes anyways).

Every time Hunter comes up you talk about his college game, his college stats, his Heisman position, etc Not one bit of any of that matters, that's the point.

@CamWhoaaCam You love to reference college stats and Heisman positioning, but you realize that the following player......... 13-16 career W-L record, best season in college was 65% completion, 5k yards, 41 TDs, 10 INTs, 260 yards rushing, 12 rushing TDs, never had a single Heisman vote Is possibly the greatest NFL player of all time While the following player........ 48-7 career W-L record, best season in college was 67% completion, 3.2k yards, 32 TDs, 6 INTs, 900 yards rushing, 23 rushing TDs, and was a Heisman winner, Heisman 3rd place, and Heisman 5th place Is a player who only lasted 3 years in the NFL Right? That first player is Mahomes, the second is The Golden Calf of Bristol. Stop pointing towards college stats and Heisman positioning as arguments for how they project at the NFL level. Sure stats are fun to look at and can give you an idea about a player, but the college game is crazy, stats are very misleading at that level.

Because not having an OL can ruin a young QB faster than not having a WR can And for a defensive HC, protecting his QB and building through the trenches seems like something he might prefer, NE has had one of the worst OL's this year

I still think NE would be more likely to draft an LT or Hunter over T-Mac, as much as he'd be a perfect fit for Jones. They need to protect their QB, and for a defensive first time HC, I'd be surprised if he went QB and then WR with his first two 1st round picks as HC. If he went offense again, I think it would be in the trenches to protect his franchise QB, and if not, he'd go defense.

and WR is the worst position to give that money out while you're still trying to re-build a team and have a ton of holes, since you have to overpay for them in FA and the best of them never hit the open market anyways, so you have to overpay for someone not quite deserving of the contract. The only way you're getting a true outside #1 like T-Mac is thru the draft, I don't even think Higgins is that type of guy anyways, he's more of someone who could be the best #2 in the league or a middle of the road #1, like the 15th best WR in the league. T-Mac has true Top 5 potential, taking Burden or Hunter and giving Higgins the contract instead of just drafting T-Mac would be the dumbest move of all time. You can find more than effective slot WRs later in the draft or on the cheap in FA, but not the true outside #1's

T-Mac is already a better WR than Higgins is right now, is younger, and won't require 20+ million to sign him this offseason. Draft T-Mac, use all our cap room on the defense, take a shifty, fast slot WR in the 4th. Such a better way to build the WR room than by overpaying for Higgins and drafting Burden.

he went multiple weeks this year of battling an injury, and didn't finish a couple games because of it. Pretty sure he missed a big chunk of his freshman year to injuries and he missed like 3 or so games last year to it too. He's 6'1" 185 lbs with basically double the amount of wear and tear on his body as any other college junior because of the number of snaps he's played. If you don't think that's a factor for a player of his size, you're just sticking your head in the sand to purposefully ignore it. I'm not saying it disqualifies him from a team drafting him highly, but it's not a 0% factor, it must be taken into consideration at the very top of the draft when you have other elite prospects who have more of a prototypical frame for the NFL. T-Mac has a good 30+ lbs on him, Johnson is only an inch taller but almost 20 lbs heavier. Hunter is more like DeVonta Smith, also a Heisman winner, but someone who has had some injury concerns in the NFL because of his slim frame.

no, he's not, he's the 2nd best CB when you're projecting their future NFL prospects. Johnson's size is a big factor there, just like Hunter's lack of size and him battling injuries all 3 years in college is a factor. He's slim, it doesn't help his chances of staying healthy in the NFL when he can't do it in college, even if part of the reason is the number of snaps he's played, as that just means he has so much more miles on his body than the average draft prospect. You can't ignore these things when projecting players at the next level, the fact that you want to, is proof that you live in a Madden lens of how to view everything, not a real world on the field of NFL football. And again, nobody is saying he's an awful prospect, just that he's the 2nd best at either position, that you think that is an insult to him is just comical.

This isn't a Hunter vs T-mac debate for our draft pick It's objectively looking at Hunter, what he does well, where he struggles, and projecting that at the next level. You get all butt hurt when someone says he isn't the #1 prospect and think saying he's #2 at his position and a Top 10 pick is an insult. And yes, T-Mac is 100% a better WR prospect than Hunter, literally not even a debate about that. If you want to debate Hunter as CB vs a WR in T-Mac, that's fair, but that's then position based.

I've used the comparison a bunch of times, but to me, Hunter is much more Reggie Bush than Charles Woodson. Bush was a legit generational college player, who's game didn't perfectly translate to the NFL, so he just never was going to be a true NFL star. Woodson was a generational college player for similar reasons to Hunter, but he also was just a legit true HOF shutdown corner. I think Hunter falls somewhere between them, but I think he's more of the collegiate freak than the sure fire NFL HOFer.

you're literally pointing to his HS ranking, his possible Heisman trophy, his stats, as the reasons he should be the top prospect. You can't say all that and then belittle someone pointing out how past college stat stuffers and heisman winners doesn't make someone a great NFL player.

Yep, nobody wants to give them/him any credit. We're saying he's a generational collegiate talent and the best player in the nation who is the 2nd best player at his possible positions and a Top 10 pick But nope, we refuse to give him any credit at all. His high school ranking should clearly factor over everything else. You know who else was the #1 rated player in High School, who won the Heisman trophy, and ended up as the #1 overall pick? Bryce Young

oh my god, wait a minute, are you telling me that the best player in college was drafted #1 overall almost 15 years ago? How did I miss that, you're right, the best player in college in any given year should be the #1 overall pick regardless of anyone else in the draft or how else their game translates to the NFL. Teams really screwed up by not taking The Golden Calf of Bristol #1 overall... or even someone like Eric Crouch. My god, how did Troy Smith fall to the 5th round after being the best player and winning the Heisman. You've cracked the code that NFL teams have somehow missed for all these decades, always take the best collegiate player first overall, you can't fail. Johnny Manziel would have been an NFL stud if he went #1 overall We got such a steal in the 4th round by getting Chris Weinke, can't believe the other teams in the league let that happen

Because he's not the best prospect in the draft, he's the best college player in the draft, and those are two entirely different things. Yes, if he focused on one side, his stats may have been better, but stats aren't what makes a player's prospects, it's their abilities and how they translate to the next level. I'm also not knocking him as a prospect, not like I'm saying he's a mid round pick, he's just probably the 2nd best CB and 3rd best WR, in what way is that throwing shade on him? It's literally saying he's a Top 10 pick, just not THE top prospect at his position(s). I really don't get why you think someone saying a player is the 2nd best player at one position and 2nd or 3rd best at another position is hating on them, it's crazy talk. Even in your defense of him here, you say a just asinine sentence, "he's the #1 rated prospect because he's actually elite at both positions" His ability at 2 positions has 0% bearing on his NFL prospects, as no team is going to use him full time both ways, he's either going to be a full time WR, or a mostly full time CB who gets 5 or so snaps a game on offense. So him playing both positions shouldn't factor into any team's draft evaluation of him, if a team is taking him over Johnson because of the few snaps he'd play on offense, they're choosing a player for the wrong reason. The only way I'm taking him over T-Mac is if it's a team that already has a true outside #1 and what they need is speed in the slot to compliment the outside guy (and btw, most teams don't have that, if anything, most would have the slot guy and need the true outside #1). Your need to constantly talk about stats is also just a red flag for your evaluations of players, as the college game is wild, stats don't mean near as much as you think. So many college offenses are built to put up monster stats, particularly against the weaker defenses in colleges, even if doing so exposes them to other issues, because in the end, the good can outweigh the bad in the college game in a way that doesn't happen in the NFL.

This is just a classic example of falling for the media hype and/or not seeing the difference between being a generational collegiate talent and actual translation to the NFL. Yes, Hunter is completely unique and there's never been anyone quite like him in college. But at the same time, he's literally not even the best WR or CB in the draft, that's T-Mac and Will Johnson. Just because someone is generational in college, it doesn't mean they are the best possible NFL prospect at any given position, they're two entirely different things. Yes, Hunter is a true elite CB prospect and a very very good WR prospect, but individually he's not even the best at either position and he's not going to be a full time 2 way player in the NFL either. Let someone else deal with the headache that will follow him, he's not even on my draft board, if it was him or trade the pick for someone else to get stuck with dealing with him, I'm trading that pick 100 times out of 100, even if it's just moving back 1 spot and adding a future 7th rounder to do so.

Tetairoa McMillan and then I couldn't care less about any other moves we make

best case outcome possible, that's what we want every game. Keep it competitive, show fight and improvement, but lose the game to help our draft position. Meaningless wins right now aren't going to help us win games in future seasons, but picking 5 spots higher in the draft 100% can. Go for the moral victories, not actual victories lol

Would love to see us sign him to say a 4 year extension structured in a way that pays him most of the money in the first two years with an out after the 2. It protects us to injuries or penalty issues, it gives him a lot of money, and it also gives him an ability to renegotiate in 2 years if he plays at a high level, and if he does, we'd be happy to pay it to him again.

But again, you can restock a defense through free agency much easier than offensive skill positions. Spend all our cap space on defense, take a true elite prospect who also happens to fit a position of need in T-Mac, and then use the rest of our picks on defense. Again, every season there’s a smattering of great DL, LB, and DB options in free agency, a Top 10 WR never hits free agency, ever. The only way you get one is through the draft or giving up 1st round picks in a trade for one. If he’s there when we’re on the clock, he has to be the pick, he’s just that good.

making my head spin at how much you're all over T-Mac now lol

If anything he’s being undervalued If he played for a big time program that was in the playoff hunt, he’d be viewed as a generational talent, but being on an awful Arizona team, he’s being g overlooked by most people. Best offensive player in the draft regardless of position

And great defensive players are ALWAYS available in free agency, because teams usually prioritize getting their QB and WRs locked up and never hit the open market Use our cap space 100% on defense, get a few impact players that way, and then you draft T-Mac, the best player in this draft. You will never find a player like him hit open free agency, it’s the only way to get a true stud outside #1 WR. Dont over think it Draft Tetairoa McMillan no matter what