tukafan21

Yes, that's actually part of the argument against Hunter's prospects, particularly because he's still insisting on being a 2 way player. He's still putting personal glory over his own personal ceiling as a prospect, because yea, if he focused on either side of the ball, he'd be a better player because of it, while also extending his career (as playing 2 way is a sure fire way to shorten it). Too many people here think the "hating" on Hunter is just hating him, no, we recognize that he is a true generational college player, but we have concerns about how his game translates to the NFL as well as serious concerns about the beating his body has taken from playing 2 ways for the last 3 years.

He spent the entire season complaining on podcasts that he wasn't the Heisman favorite. He then flew entirely across the country on his bye week to show up to College Gameday in person to again, campaign for himself for Heisman. His coach posted a video of him "stealing" shoes from Deion's personal locker room because he thought it was funny. But do you really think that would fly with any other player or coach in the nation? If you don't think these things are red flags of a potential diva when his NFL HC isn't a surrogate father to him, then again, you're sticking your head in the sand.

You do realize that raw stats don't make someone a better or worse player, right? To begin with, the last time I checked, 1,319 is more yards than 1,258, so T-Mac had more yards (but I'll forgive you as a typo there and say you meant catches lol), but that's before even factoring in that Hunter did his in 13 games vs 12 for T-Mac because Arizona didn't make a bowl game. It's also completely ignoring the team around each player. If you think Hunter having the 8th place finisher in the Heisman voting at QB isn't going to result in helping his top WRs stats, then you're sticking your head in the sand to purposefully not see it. Hunter's QB had 353 completions for 4,134 yards and 37 TDs vs T-Mac's QB who had 260 completions for 2,958 yards and 18 TDs. But sure, let's rank NFL prospects by their stats and say the guy with more catches and TDs is the better prospect. So on that note, I now change my mind, T-Mac is no longer the best WR in the draft, it's Nick Nash who had 104 rec, 1,382 yards, and 16 TDs, all numbers better than Hunter's... because that's how this is done, right? As I've said before, if someone wants to like a player better than someone else that's totally fair, but come with real reasons, talk about their play, but to talk about things like stats as your reasoning, when you ignore the obvious and massive flaws in using those stats in that way, just makes you look dumb.

If you don't think taking twice the amount of hits than other players do doesn't wear your body down faster than your biological age, then you're fooling yourself.

I honestly don’t think he’s the best WR or CB in the draft, I’d take T-Mac and Johnson over him at each position respectively. If you want to argue him being the best player because he can play both ways, that’s more fair, but as I’ve said a million times, if he tries to play both sides in the NFL it will both limit his potential on each side and will lead to a shorter career as he’s going to get hurt given his thin frame.

How is it not a 2:1? He hasn’t been a part time player on either side, he’s been full time, so he’s played twice the number of snaps as any other 3 year player. If anything you could make the argument that it’s closer to 3:1 than anything because he’s taken the physical impact of playing both positions, but without the break other players get when their side of the ball is off the field. So he plays double the amount but without the in game recovery time every other player gets.

You do realize that post of mine had nothing to do with T-Mac at all, right? I only mentioned him because it's the same general thing I've been saying in his threads, but my feelings regarding the combine testing carries across all players. Especially as the 40 yard dash is even more irrelevant to pass rushers, the only time they're going to be running full speed in a straight line is if they're trying to track a player downfield during a big play, something which you'd love your pass rushers to do, but not what you're drafting them for their ability to do. As I've said previously, the combine made more sense decades ago when there weren't 100 cameras for every college game and thus teams have more than enough game footage to evaluate and compare prospects, as it then gave them ways to compare players they have limited and/or poor quality film of. You say it's about reinforcing opinions, but it's not, because if their timings don't show you that, it then means you change it. If T-Mac comes out and runs a say 4.47, what are you going to say about it as that's clearly not what your opinion is of him right now? And it works the other way around too, what if someone looks like they play super fast, but then their timings (in both the 40 and other drills) are slower than you'd expect? That doesn't reinforce opinions of what you see on the field, if anything it just muddies up the water even more. Some players are just gamers and no matter what they do, they're always going to play faster than they test or practice, just as some players will always play slower than they test or practice. Which is why I don't care if a player runs faster or slower, or even exactly the same, as expected, I just put zero weight behind it, I care about what I see on the field and yea, it annoys me when I see people say, like they have in this thread, that their final opinion on a player and/or draft position will come down to combine testing.

And this is exactly what I've been railing about in the T-Mac threads lately. For the life of me, I can't understand how a player's 40 time changes anyones opinion of a player when you have years of tape on them. Why does how fast a player runs 40 yards down the field change your views on them when that position will never do that in a game? I utterly despise what the combine has become in how people use it to drastically change their opinions on players. To me, the only thing the combine is good for is for teams to easily be able to meet with and interview dozens upon dozens of players in a matter of days, not a single thing done on the field means jack squat to me.

Hunter, no question about it. I think he's going to be a massive diva in this league, especially when he doesn't get his way of being a full time 2 way player. I also think he's more hype than reality because people can't separate his collegiate impact with his potential NFL impact. He's a true generational collegiate talent, but I don't see that translating to the NFL myself. But the bigger reason that people just seem to not want to talk about or just flat out ignore, he's going to be a rookie next year, but in the body of someone starting their 4th season in the league already. He takes twice the amount of wear and tear on his body every year due to playing both ways, so it's essentially like he's already played 6 seasons worth of football past high school. He's going to breakdown much faster than other players, even if he stays on one side of the ball moving forward as he already has more wear and tear on him.

Oh I've long been prepared for it as I know the odds of any team drafting one specific player is very low. And a small part of me wants him to be drafted before us anyways, just as that would be easier to swallow than us possibly passing on him. But both of those things aside, prepare yourself to be wrong on him, as that one I'm certain you will be.

Spoken like someone who A. doesn't know enough about T-Mac's game and B. someone who is afraid of our own past of taking the big physical projects in the late 1st or 2nd round and them not panning out, as T-Mac isn't a late 1st raw project type of prospect. But it's okay, either people are going to be thrilled in a few years when he's earning All Pro's here in Carolina, or you're all going to realize how right I was on him when he's doing it for someone else.

I said this in another thread recently, and I know people will scoff at me even bringing up another Arizona player given my T-Mac feelings. But if we're going to give a rookie a shot, take a look at Arizona's Tyler Loop. I'll be 100% honest in that I have no idea how to properly evaluate a kicker's NFL potential, but what I can say is that the kid has a MONSTER leg. Hit a 62 yarder this year and the number of long kicks he'd put OVER the net was insane, think he put a 48 yarder over it this past season if I remember correctly.

Garrett has been a DE his whole life and was the #2 overall high school prospect as one, Parsons was a MLB until 3 years ago and is still learning the position. Despite that, Parsons still had 10 more sacks in his first 4 years than Garrett had, albeit in 12 more games. If Garrett’s numbers have been historical, what have Parsons’ been when he is ahead of Garrett’s pace while still learning the position? My whole point was you wouldn’t be making the trade for one game or even one season, Parsons is the one you’d want moving forward, and I don’t think he’s as far behind in current impact as you think.

Sure, then we have very different definitions of "blue chip" then, as to me, I think of it like in college recruiting, a "blue chip" prospect is a 5 star guy, the elite of the elite. For me right now, there are 4 in that group at the moment, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Lamar, and I think even the biggest Bryce backer would have to be out of their mind to say they think he is going to reach the level of those guys. Which is how it was being used in this thread, it was being in reference to Garrett, who yea, I put in the top 3 best pass rushers right now, if I'm drafting a new team, it's Garrett, Parsons, and Watt all in the discussion for 1st pass rusher taken for me, that's a blue chip player. And also, again, I'm not wishing for this to happen, I'd LOVE it if Bryce were to prove me wrong, I just don't see it. For me, his mental part of the game is only ever going to take him so far when he'll always be near, or at, the bottom of the league in physical talent at the QB position. There has been 1 of those guys before him, Brees, and Bryce is smaller with a weaker arm, he still needs to be the biggest outlier in league history to live up to the trade and be what you think he will be. But again, prove me wrong Bryce, I'd be happy to eat crow on this as it's what is best for the franchise, but I'm still going to call it like I see it until it's proven one way or the other.

lol, you think I'm unrealistic about T-Mac's potential but you actually think Bryce can be a "blue chip player" next year?!?! Even if I thought differently about Bryce (and I don't), he's never going to be a blue chip player, ever. A "blue chip" player is an All Pro, a Top 2-3 player at their position, and I don't care what you think about Bryce, he's NEVER going to be a Top 3 QB in this league, ever. To think Bryce can be a Top 3 QB is so much more ridiculous than if I were to say T-Mac will be the best WR in the history of the NFL (which I'd never be dumb enough to say anyways). Hell, you could say Bryce will be a Pro Bowler in the next year or two, and that still doesn't qualify him to be a "blue chip player"

I'm not saying he is or isn't, they're probably the two best pass rushers in the game (Watt makes it a 3 man conversation for me), trying to say one is better than the other is more or less pointless. But when Parsons is younger and there can even a debate between who is better, if I'm giving up too much to get anyone, I'm going with the guy who is 3.5 years younger every time. All of that is to say that I still don't think either is a good trade. That's a trade you make when that one player can push you into legitimate SB contention, and we're not that one player away even before you factor in the picks and cap room we'll lose to get him, all of which are needed to even get us just into playoff contention in the next couple years, let alone SB contention. We're still years away from hoping to contend, every offseason we try to find the quick fix, all it is is one step forward and 3 steps back. And this isn't about keeping the 8th pick for the hope at the guy everyone here knows I want, it's about building the roster up correctly, not throwing a hail mary while trying to fit the square peg into the round hole to expedite a process that realistically can't be expedited.

There is no world where I'd ever be okay with giving up future 1st round picks, for any player, until we know if Bryce can be the future or not (and for all you Bryce backers, you can't honestly say he's already proven that he can be). I also don't believe for a second that Garrett who is asking for a trade not because of money, but because he wants to win, would be okay with coming here where we're not 1 player away from winning. All while at the same time, trading for him and extending would take us out at the knees to build the rest of the roster out that we'd need to actually contend anyways. AND.... even if I were okay with it, I'd much rather go after Parsons than Garrett, younger and might actually be the better player as well.

First, you keep saying Mike Williams... you mean Evans, lol But second, if this is true, it would be really ironic given T-Mac also excelled on making plays on the scramble drill with his QB as they've played together since 8th grade, they do that well together. The difference is those plays generally didn't end up in much YAC for T-Mac, as he was either coming back to the ball to find a hole in the traffic to make the catch and go down for the first, or they were throws towards the sideline where he was making the play while just keeping his feet in bounds.

Oh yea, I also forgot about this one I posted a few days ago. If Evans plays fast but T-Mac doesn't, why is the fastest Evans' has been clocked at in a game 20.6 MPH while T-Mac has been clocked at 21.8 MPH?

Nope, but try again

Thank you People can say what they want about him as a prospect, opinions vary and I take no issue with that. It's when people ignore things like this when talking about statistics that get to me. Arizona's leading recieving yards this year after T-Mac were... 323, 245, 217, 196, 196, 172, and 109 with 2 of the 3 guys over 200 yards being a TE and RB as is. Texas A&M's other leading receiving yards in Evans final year... 818, 658, 626, 240, and 210, with all 5 of them being WRs to take defensive attention away from Evans. There was not only zero fear by other teams about the other weapons, they straight up dared Arizona to beat them by leaving them open to double and triple team T-Mac constantly. And even then, those players, the QB, and play calling was so poor that they not only couldn't take advantage of that, but T-Mac was still good enough to finish 4th in the nation in yards (prior to bowl games) and I think only fell one or two spots if you just entirely removed his 300 yard game anyways.

If he plays so slow, how was he 5th in the Big 12 this year in YAC? Luther Burden, who everyone here lauds as an elite post catch guy, had 676 yards this season. T-Mac who everyone here claims is slow and plodding, had 430 yards AFTER the catch this season. But yea, he's slow, stiff, and just a 50/50 ball type of WR.

And this is why teams don't draft players off of reading cherry picked box scores, but by watching film, because this doesn't come close to telling the story of his season or even those games. That Colorado game for example, T-Mac only had 7 targets all game, of those 7, he caught 5 of them, with 3 for 1st downs, the other two still ended up as first downs with a pass interference and a roughing the passer penalty on them, and then sat for most of the 4th quarter as the game was over. I can't stress enough how bad Arizona's coaching staff failed T-Mac this year, and short of having access to full game footage and knowing how to cut it all together into a video to show you all, I can't properly counter other than saying to trust me, which I know won't go over well here. I'm not sure I've ever seen a team double a WR off the snap with a 3rd man also over the top of them as was done to him this year, because teams had zero fear of our QB or other weapons being a threat to them. The play calling this season was beyond atrocious, the Arizona fan base was calling for the firing of the entire coaching staff all year long, it was really really really bad. Literally, I think the Arizona fan base was more upset with our staff this year than this fan base was ever upset with Rhule (and no, I'm not joking, it was that ugly) Hell, even beyond any of that, Evans had a Heisman winning QB and future 1st round pick throwing him the ball in a crazy pass happy offense, but sure, let's ignore that and put it all on the two players. Evan's QB stats his Jr season - 300 completions, 4,114 yards, 37 TDs T-Mac's QB stats his Jr season - 260 completions, 2,958 yards, 18 TDs And again, cherry picking box scores is just dumb anyways. Because yea, I can do the same thing, like how in Evans' 2nd to last college game against #5 Mizzouri, he had 4 catches for 8 yards (and that was with a long catch of 10 yards, so his other 3 were for -2 yards). The whole point is that trying to compare college box scores from over a decade apart is just a fools errand as they aren't really comparable, far too many other factors that comparing WR game logs to each other is just ridiculous.

No, I don’t. in fact, I’ve made numerous posts describing in depth the numerous ways I see T-Mac’s game working in the NFL and with Bryce’s skill set in particular.

LOL If you think throwing the deep ball in college is remotely the same thing as the NFL, then you're just lying to yourself. College defenses SUCK, it's why you see absurd scoring numbers and huge plays on a constant basis. It's an undeniable fact that Bryce doesn't have a cannon for an arm, trying to argue that Bryce has the arm to take advantage of a true speedster to take the top off the defense is the worst argument anyone can make to help their credibility. This has nothing to do with my love of T-Mac or my feelings about Bryce in general. He has a weak arm, he doesn't have the ability to just throw the ball past the defense and let his WR chase the ball down, which is what people are asking for when they say they want that type of WR. When people refuse to just admit painfully obvious things like that, it's just a bad look. You can LOVE a player while still acknowledging their biggest weakness, and with Bryce, it's his ability to throw the deep ball.