tukafan21

I think it's completely because of our QB situation, it's so bad that having someone like Cam around for things will only showcase how much we've screwed up the QB situation since him. The important thing is that the fans will always love him, and I'm sure he is aware of that and will be back in the fold at some point. That's my Quarterback!

Maybe, but maybe not in the end (in regards to a 5-12 team picking 10th). I pointed this out in a thread last night, but the bottom 8 teams in the standings right now have A LOT of games against each other, where someone has to win. Here are the clearly winnable games for those bottom 8 teams, 5 of them play at least 2 of the other 7 from this group still, so just by default, there will be a lot of wins from these teams still to come, as I'm sure there will also be an upset win or two from this group as well in addition to these possible wins. Jags (2 wins) - Titans x2, Raiders, Jets, Colts Giants (2 wins) - Cowboys, Saints, Colts Titans (2 wins) - Jags x2, Colts Browns (2 wins) - Saints, (Dolphins if they sit Tua as it's 2nd to last game) Raiders (2 wins) - Jags, Saints Patriots (3 wins) - Colts, Rams (it's home this week, 1pm game, Rams on short week) Saints (3 wins) - Browns, Giants, Raiders Jets (3 wins) - Colts, Jags, (also Dolphins last week if no Tua)

I don't think the Jags are picking ahead of us anyways, at least not if Lawrence plays the rest of the year (or most of it). Here are the very winnable games left for the rest of the teams ahead of us in the draft right now... Jags (2 wins) - Titans x2, Raiders, Jets, Colts Giants (2 wins) - Cowboys, Saints, Colts Titans (2 wins) - Jags x2, Colts Browns (2 wins) - Saints, (Dolphins if they sit Tua as it's 2nd to last game) Raiders (2 wins) - Jags, Saints Patriots (3 wins) - Colts, Rams (it's home this week, 1pm game, Rams on short week) Saints (3 wins) - Browns, Giants, Raiders Jets (3 wins) - Colts, Jags, (also Dolphins last week if no Tua) The Patriots are the only team there that doesn't play another one of these teams, and the Browns and Jets are the only others that don't play at least 2 of them. We're not beating the Chiefs or Eagles. We're not winning road games against the Cardinals or Falcons with them fighting for playoff positioning (assuming the Cardinals aren't locked into their place by week 17). I also, personally don't think we're beating the Bucs in either game. Which just leaves the Cowboys, we lose that game and we're picking Top 3 or 4 at worst, still a legit shot at #1 because as of right now, the Jags are the only 2 loss team that we'd lose the SOS tiebreaker to. Even if we beat the Cowboys, with how many times all those teams play each other, or have other winnable games, I think we still end up 4-6 (although Dallas losing out without Dak would screw us as they'd be ahead of us and think T-Mac is a perfect pairing with Lamb who plays in the slot and they need more weapons). Yea, if we end up beating the Bucs or have another surprise upset too, it will end up dropping us further back to the 10-12 range Of these teams, the Titans, Browns, Patriots, and Raiders are the only ones I think would consider WR. The Raiders would prefer a QB, the Browns and Titans also could go QB if they end up that high. I'm hoping if the Patriots end up above us, they go OL to protect Maye, that could come down to if they're able to find a good LT in free agency before the draft. But the Patriots does feel like fate as both Gronkowski and Bruschi are two of the best Wildcats of all times who then ended up Patriots legends. I've made it clear that I'm not high on this QB class, the last time they said a class was like this one was 2023 and 2 of the Top 4 picks have already been benched and Stroud is struggling this year too. So I'm hoping we end up 3rd with QB's going 1-2 and Deion pushing us not to pick Hunter so we are almost forced to take T-Mac. And if we lose out, there is a very real chance that's exactly where we end up when you look at the remaining schedules of all these teams.

Trading Deontae was 100% the right call, as he's not a #1 either and we weren't going to re-sign him, but we still got an awful return for him (thankfully the Mingo trade made up for it). And yes, we need that smaller shifty WR, but we also need a true outside #1 as neither XL or Coker are that. That's why I think T-Mac is a perfect fit for us in the early 1st round as that outside #1, Coker and XL could both play on the other outside and in the slot, and find a small shifty WR to work from the slot too, with Sanders, Brooks, and now Hubbard with the extension, plus our OL, is an offense that can succeed with a good game manager type of QB and not need a superstar.

uh..... no. I'm sure people will take this as me just pushing to draft T-Mac still, but it's not, we BADLY need a true outside #1 WR, whether it's my guy or someone else, it's a HUGE need, especially since we're not going to have an elite QB next year, we need to get the pass catching options to improve our QB play, no matter who that ends up being. I love the potential of XL and even Coker, but if you would take your Panthers fandom goggles off for a moment and look at it objectively, our two leading returning WRs for next season hav 284 and 263 yards through 10 games. I don't care how good or bad the QB play is, that's a bottom 5 WR room in the NFL, if even that high. Off the top of my head, the Browns, Patriots, and Raiders are the only teams with a worse WR situation going into next year as of right now (there could be others, but I haven't actually thought about it). XL's ceiling is likely as a lower end #1, but that would make him an elite #2. I've likened him more as the Waddle/Higgins than the Tyreek/Chase (in terms of role as the Robin to Batman, not style of play) Coker, while we all think he can turn into something, is nowhere near good enough to go into next season as our #2 to XL's #1. Realistically XL should be the #2 with Coker being the #3, and that still could be asking a lot from Coker at this point in his career. In today's NFL, you're not going to win many games with below average QB play and XL/Coker as your top two WRs, it's nowhere near good enough to be competitive over the course of a season.

Caleb is still 10x the prospect that Bryce is He has all the physical tools that Bryce could only dream about having, and that's the difference. I said it before the draft, drafting Bryce was betting on him being the biggest anomaly in the history of the league at the position. It was insane then and it's still insane now to think he'll ever even be an average QB in this league, his MAX potential is like 25th best QB in the league, and he still needs EVERYTHING to go exactly his way for that to happen. His realistic potential is a decent backup because the way he sees the game can be an asset to a QB room during the week in game prep.

Wanting and knowing he has/will are two different things Even the anti-Bryce people before the draft then got on board to hoping he’d be good once we made the pick But this ship has sailed, he’s a bust for exactly what everyone saw before the draft, he doesn’t any the physical capabilities to be a starting NFL QB

If we end up in this range, then I'm praying we end up trading back, even more so than if we were to end up at #1 #10 is that range you can trade back like 5-8 spots and pick up a future 1st because a team badly wants someone who is still on the board. Give me an extra 1st rounder in a deep QB draft class any day of the week. Maybe that team has a rough season and we get lucky and end up with another Top 10 pick because of it, but even if not, it helps give you the draft capital needed to move up in the draft to get that QB as well.

And the strategy, or more accurate word, hope, of strong minded individuals is to want your team to show fight and be competitive in all the games, but still end up losing all of them in the end to help your draft pick. That's VERY different than tanking and trying to lose. If you think winning a couple extra games at the end of a season like this is going to be the tipping point for Free Agents to want to come here vs not coming here, then I have some beachfront property to sell you in Arizona. A team can show progress and fight, but still lose games, which is what a true fan should be hoping for right now. I've never understood how "real" fans can say, "yea I hope we win these couple games, in a completely lost season, to feel good for a few hours, at the detriment to helping my team win consistently for the next decade" Because in the NFL, picking 5 spots later, even still in the Top 10, can have a MASSIVE ripple affect for years later. Just look at us a few years back, if we were 1 pick earlier in 2020, we could have ended up with Justin Herbert and had an offense of Herbert, CMC, and DJ. Sure, I know we didn't win a bunch of games down the stretch in 2019 to hurt our pick that year, but it just proves that at the top end of the draft, every draft slot can have massive ripple affects because of the type of talent that you can get there at such key positions.

Example #1,294 of you not actually reading my posts before you respond to them. Me: "I think we're going to win 1 more game at most, end up in the 4-6 pick range, and hope a couple QB's go and then will come down to team needs if T-Mac falls to us" You: "Maybe if we get back in the top 10, you say he's the best prospect in the draft, so how would he be available at #10" MY DUDE.... I literally just said I think we're getting back in the Top 5 range and then said how I'd hope we still land him, so what's the point of saying "how it stands today" as I obviously know that. In regards to the specific teams you called out... New Orleans has Olave and Shaheed who was looking really good before getting hurt, and they will want to move on from Carr. Given their cap issues moving forward, they aren't investing a high first round pick in WR given those two they already have, I think they'd be a QB draft pick team, and that's if they're before us, they have a bunch of winnable games left. Cleveland could use a WR after trading Cooper of course, but I think they want to move on from the Watson saga so badly that if they can draft one of the QB's, they would as well. Jacksonville could concern me a little because they could want to give Lawrence another elite weapon, but they also have OL issues I believe and could see them going that route to protect him instead. They also end with 5 straight very winnable games, so not sure they're going to be picking ahead of us anyways. New England is the team in your list that would scare me the most, as they badly need a true #1 WR for Maye, and they have a rough schedule ahed of them. I'd just have to hope they go the Hunter route, which given their HC being a former defensive player, I could very well see them go that way. Would be fitting though if he ends up there, two best players in school history end up as Patriots legends with him and Gronk (not to mention Teddy Bruschi was a Wildcat as well lol). After those teams.... Tennessee scares me a lot too as I think if they want to give Levis another season, T-Mac would be a great weapon for them to pair with Ridley and see what he can do with his big arm. Same goes for the Raiders if they were to not get a QB themselves, as they have a clear need there now that they traded Adams. Zero concern about the Jets or Dolphins taking a WR with the ones they have and their other issues, same goes for the Giants as they'd take a QB and I don't see them taking two WR's in the top 10 back to back years if they were to not take a QB. So yea, if we stay at 10, we're not getting him, but if we are in that 4-6 range, very decent chance there could be 2 QB's, maybe an OL or Hunter, maybe a pass rusher if it's a team like the Jets who have WRs. That puts him still sitting there at #6, but even that will take some luck and I think any further down and we won't be able to get him.

Look at our schedule, Cowboys are probably our only winnable game left unless we can beat the Bucs, but Evans will be back by then too. If we only win 1 more game (or none) we’ll still probably end up picking around 4-6 in the end, if a couple QB’s go in the first few picks, will come down to team needs, but I’m hoping we can still get my guy T-Mac

I have no issue with a team drafting a QB and letting them sit to learn at first. But when they had the roster they put together and then spent the money they did on Cousins, it was with the intent of contending for a SB with Cousins as the QB. That gives them a 1-3 year window for the SB, drafting Penix does NOTHING to help them win that SB, all it did was take away a legit difference maker at another position they could have used the pick with. While at the same time, eliminating their chance to utilize a rookie QB contract to save money to spend elsewhere while trying to win a SB. Again, people need to stop looking at draft picks in a vacuum, they need to look at it in regards to a franchise's roster and current goals and expectations in the coming years.

Then Brooks was the wrong pick. Again, like I said, it's not about this signing, it's about the whole picture, one of the two was bad, the pick or this signing, time will tell which was the wrong decision, but one of them was wrong. But if I were to bet on it, I'd say the contract was wrong, as if he can stay healthy, then I think Brooks is going to be a very good RB in this league for a while.

This is WAY closer to the Falcons drafting Penix after signing Cousins than the Lions drafting Gibbs after signing Montgomery. Poor allocation of assets across the full roster given where we are as a franchise and state of the roster

First, you can't compare it to the Falcons when both of those guys are still on rookie contracts. Second, you also can't compare it to the Lions because again, they already had an almost fully built out roster before that, one that was obviously ready to compete for a SB run immediately upon making that draft pick and signing last offseason That's the point, it's not about the player or contract, it's about how that does or doesn't make sense with the rest of the roster. It's not an argument against a RB committee, it's an argument against this contract given our draft pick of Brooks. Last offseason guys like Zack Moss signed for 2 years and $8 million, Derrick Henry for 2 years and $16M, Ekeler for 2 years and $11M, Gus Edwards for 2 and $6.5M, Antonio Gibson for 3 and $11M. Brooks is the future RB of this team, he has the skill set to be a 3 down back. Even if you're going with a committee, signing any guys like the above to a cheaper deal to be the compliment to Brooks is a significantly better use of money. And to your point of a $10 million pass rusher probably not being worthy of a starter... yes, you're correct. But it's more like that $10 million would be used in addition to the $5-8M that we'd be already giving to a DE, to get a legit $15+ pass rusher in FA. Give me a $15-20M pass rusher and a 5th round draft pick or cheap 1 year FA to compliment Brooks at RB over Hubbard and a below average DE who will be here for one year as a bad rental starter. People need to stop looking at every contract, draft pick, trade, signing, etc, in a vacuum. They need to start looking at the bigger picture and how all the pieces fit together, it's why we keep failing as a franchise as we keep repeating our same mistakes.

Two problems with this The first is easy, yes you do when you already drafted their replacement with the highest ranked RB in the draft class The second is also easy, and it's exactly why I was screaming for us to trade him at the deadline, so we got a draft asset in return for him instead of letting him walk for nothing.

Previous bad contracts don't make a bad one now acceptable. And there is nothing wrong with a committee, but we traded up in the 2nd round to take the widely regarded #1 RB in the draft class. You don't do that with the intent of him being a backup for his entire rookie contract, and you don't sign someone to be the 9th highest paid RB in the league to be the backup either. If we were a contending team and we could afford it, it would be different, such as with the Lions and their RB room right now. But we're not, we have SOOOOO many holes, that spending $10 million on an RB when you have someone who should be a 3 down workhouse on a cheap 2nd round rookie contract, is just a completely irresponsible use of the cap room. How can anyone be okay with spending that $10 million there as opposed to a starting DE, CB, or LB? Or if we go QB in the draft next year like so many want, that $10 million could be used towards a WR as even with Legette and what people want Coker to be, that WR room next year is looking like one of the worst in the league right now. Contracts can never be looked at in a vacuum, when you take everything into consideration, it's a terrible signing unless they already know Brooks isn't going to be THAT guy, and if that's the case, then it was a terrible draft pick. Again, one of the two decisions is terrible, we just may not know which one it is yet, but time will let us know.

So we're either paying a backup RB $10 million a year or we wasted trading up for a 2nd round pick to be the backup RB Either way it turns out, one of them was a beyond stupid decision, just lovely.

If he was a vet or had 3 years of full playing time in college, it would be different, I'd lean more on the side of caution. But this is someone who now over the last 4 years, has really only played in games for one of them as he had 51 combined carries his first two years in college. If he wants to reach his potential, he needs reps and he needs them this year, he can't miss another year without meaningful game snaps. The knee is structurally sound at this point being a year out from injury and today's tech/rehab capabilities. Sure his lack of game shape could lead to pulled muscles or something, but it's not going to put him at risk of a more serious injury to give him 10-15 carries right out of the gate. Also, we need see what he's got, to know if he's going to be able to handle a 3 down role next year before the offseason. Because if he can, then we shouldn't be re-signing Hubbard as he's earned a decent contract from someone next year. We can't give that out to a guy who will end up being a backup to someone on a rookie deal, it's a place we can save money to spend elsewhere for a few years, as we could get a much cheaper backup option in free agency or even draft someone else in like the 5th round to be his backup and really save money at the position.

Sure, I’ve been saying we needed to trade Johnson since like week 3ish It doesn’t change that we made a bad trade in the end

Even if they win it all and we have the #1 pick, it would still be about 10 picks because of the compensatory picks But it still was a terrible trade, just sayin, it’s probably going to end up about a dozen or so picks better, not that it means anything at that point in the draft anyways.

The Titans got a 5th that turns into a 4th if they make the SB for Hopkins Hopkins… Deandre freaking Hopkins LOL

We moved up like a dozen picks in the draft and paid off almost the rest of his salary this season at the same time, for probably the best WR who was left on the market this season It was an awful trade

Basically this trade is what I’d have expected to get for Johnson and the Johnson trade is what I’d have expected for Mingo So maybe just call it a wash and not be upset about the awful return we got for Johnson? lol

Also to the people who think he wants out and we should try and trade for him again. DJ = XL Sure, XL isn't to DJ's level yet of course, but it's about style of play and how they'd be used, they're both that strong physical WR who are most effective getting the ball in their hand and letting them try and make plays and break tackles. And in fact, I think XL has higher upside in that type of being used because he's a bit bigger and stronger than DJ is, so if he pans out, he'll be even more effective in that role than DJ has been, but he still has to develop and get there of course. We don't need another one of those, we need a true outside #1 to compliment Legette moving forward.