WhoKnows

I thought the answer is on the roster was Ron’s philosophy, which with always promoting from within extended to coaching.

I don’t know how long we’ve been saying that but I agree. People who get cut from the Panthers in the past 6 years are not on any other teams’ radars. It’s not like we even have a position where we have great starters/backups that teams are watching their releases at specific positions. Still makes me chuckle when people are worried about other teams snatching our guys before they hit the PS. Last time that happened was Butker.

Hard to tell which CBs those were but I do remember the one who was stiff armed to the ground was our rookie QB who’s not a big guy but wasn’t cut.

We really have been doing that. The fact that the cap has been expanding nicely every year has helped but look at our 2021-2023 cap tables. $53M, $52M and $62M in dead cap carried in the last 3 years. Those were 30%, 25% and 20% of total cap and improved because overall cap space increased. Heck, still have $48M in dead cap this year from a 2-15 team. We had to trade Burns early to be able to sign two Gs came about because we have been restructuring and using all of our cap space while winning 14 games in 2021-2023. Restructuring Moton is the definition of kicking the can down the road. Remember the last 2 years when we had some discussions about cap space and we pointed to so much cap available in 2024? Well, 2024 hasn’t started and we need to restructure Moton to fit under the cap. We have a rookie QB, tons of no name cheap guys and near bottom talent pool and we are still kicking it down the road although we are definitely kicking a smaller and smaller can down the road.

TMJ had a lot of opportunity. He got WR3 snaps as a rookie and WR2 snaps in his second year. I remember people saying he didn’t get chances, which was not true. His problem was he couldn’t separate so no one ever saw him open and thought he played less than he did. We needed OL and there were a couple Cs there than would look real nice starting for us.

Let’s not bring this up. Fitterer said Young had been his guy since the year before we drafted him. Fitterer was absolutely 100% in on Young, so Morgan either agreed with that assessment or he clearly didn’t fight for his guy.

Truly amazing considering we have a rookie QB salary and our 53 is arguably the worst talent in the league. Fitterer was truly the worst GM ever. He’s the reason why Morgan likely had to settle on Burns because we needed him off the books to sign Hunt/Lewis.

How can you say a team that went 2-15 with both wins needing last minute scores and did not even have their the #1 overall pick can be a retool? Why can’t our GMs just be honest and state that we started our rebuild this year? We aren’t stupid as fans. We’ve had 6 years of losing and our prior GM tried to convince us that we just needed a QB and that our 2023 team was better than the team with CMC and Moore. I feel better about this team over last year but what we started this offseason with was a team in desperate need of a rebuild. A retool means we were competitive last year and we were the worst team by far.

I don’t really care about these bottom roster spots other than hoping we at some point have decent backups, but Moore over ISM for special teams? Did we watch the game tape? Moore turned in a return to the 14 yard line because he was going backwards when he caught the ball and ISM had a great catch and run to the 50. The stark difference in the return capabilities made me post in another thread that I hope we don’t keep Moore over ISM for returns.

Yep, which is why releasing Gano and paying Butker a rookie deal was what we should have done and maybe Butker wouldn’t have missed the 25-27 yard FG at NO during the playoffs. Would have been nice to need a FG to win at the end instead of a one armed Funchess trying to catch a ball in the end zone.

We were trying to have our cake and eat it too by stashing him on the PS and keeping Gano. KC got him off our PS or grabbed him before we could get him back onto the PS.

We do see guys get stronger and faster. Look at CMC. That said, CMC had almost 1100 total yards his rookie year even splitting time with Stewart. He got bigger and stronger and took off year 2. He was also only 21 his rookie year, 2.5 years younger. At Legette’s current age, CMC had 5400 total yards and 39 TDs. I’m rooting for Legette, but he’s got to shine this year or he’s an absolute long shot to magically be a stud at 24/25. I use Davante Adams as a “slow” developer but age wise, Legette’s rookie year = Adams 3rd year when Adams had 997 yards and 12 TDs in 16 games. I just wish we didn’t always seem to be drafting project/exception guys hoping they break the mold.

Agreed. I want to see him starting at some point this year and showing out. Being WR3, should not be challenging for a 1st rounder. He should beat out Mingo and Marshall. Similar to when Brooks is healthy. I’d be disappointed if he can’t beat out Chubba and Sanders.

I really hope we see significant impact year 1. The whole year 3 WR thing is a fantasy football thing that’s more of a myth now. It’s rare to have a Davante Adams type progression although he still had over 400 yards in years 1 and 2. Also, I hate to be a Debbi downer but I hate when I see the comment about being excited to see what full NFL offseason workout plan will do. Seems like that gets said when we have another rookie that can’t crack this talent laden roster we have. Leggette had 5 years at an SEC school and is going to be 24 in 4 months. He should be pretty far into development by now.

The same worries were around with TMJ and Mingo and the 3 players just brought up as slow developers are 42, 45 and 46 years old. Rookie WRs have been shining or not shining year 1 for 5-10 years now. Believe me, we want Leggette to shine this year, otherwise he has to be a big exception to not be a bust.

Relax man, it’s just true. A 23 year old rookie should be more ready not a late bloomer. It’s an absolute fact that colleges are producing right away impact WRs now. He really needs to show out this year. Even if it’s the second half. If he doesn’t do much this year, it’s not likely that he’ll amount to much as a 24-25 year old in year 2/3. It’s a harsh truth that first round WRs develop fast or don’t develop at all with just a few exceptions. Also, no disrespect to Mr. Scot, but he’s been way off quite a bit lately. He got so hung up on Rhule that he was a big fan of Fitterer and giving him more time and absolutely loved the Reich and co hiring. There are some negative Nellie’s in here, I’ll admit that, but most of us want to have a good team again and we don’t just defer to our draft picks are future studs. Our drafting has been terrible for years so when a bunch of other rookie WRs are getting positive news and our guy has done very little, drops the one pass he gets and seemingly can’t beat out TMJ and Mingo, it’s not surprising that we are worried and it’s really not preseason knee jerk reactions. It feels like every year since 2018, the same excuses for draft picks, outside of a few of Marty 1st round picks, are being made. What you posted is identical to what we read about last year with Mingo and the past few years of TMJ.

Timing was a little off but still a nice 50 yards in the air. Wasn’t too late enough to be an incompletion. Didn’t look like a duck or lack of arm strength so not sure it proves the point I’m sure you are trying to make. Honestly, if Young made the exact same throw, I don’t think I’d be thinking he lacks arm strength.

Still can’t believe we were stupid enough to trade CMC and Moore for half the deal the Rams gave us for Burns. Heck, cap wise it was basically a wash too. SMH.

No, it’s not. I’m not going back to long ago days, but I looked at 1st round WRs (not top 5 since another person mentioned that) and the past 5 or 6 drafts prior to this one were pretty clear. If you didn’t pop (not crazy but 700 yards, i.e. real impact) year 1, it was rare that you would. We are in pass central time and a time where WRs are coming out of college ready to transition. Feel free to go look and let me know if I’m wrong because I already posted a complete breakdown in another thread.

He won’t. Just watching the kickoff returns and it should be obvious that Moore can’t be the second returner (most teams have two guys out there). Moore went back on a ball and caught it. He had to stop and then go and he hit to the 14. ISM catches balls in stride like they teach OFs in baseball when they have to throw out a guy on a SF fly. You could tell the difference immediately. If we cut I for Moore for returns then it’s just another feather in the cap of crappy personnel decisions we need to stop making. Neither Moore, nor ISM should be getting significant WR snaps so special teams is the only decision.

Yep. I hate to say it, but unless he pops this year, it’s a really bad sign. I took a look at the past 5 or so years at 1st round WRs (most outside top 5 or so) and most excel early if they are now really good WRs and the ones that are considered busts now did not pop early. I’m rooting for him but there are very few WRs that don’t pop (like 700 yards) and end up being really good. Is he Davante Adams? Maybe, but lots more Jalen Raegor’s that don’t pop.

His accuracy and decision making is for poo. If he was any good, Clemson could have won with him. FSU isn’t even calling deep stuff. He can throw it hard and far but he’s like PJ Walker.

Pretty sure this is his 5th year. He’s started 4 years at 3 schools and backed up Lawrence during COVID including a few starts when Lawrence had COVID. He sucked at Clemson. We would have beaten Georgia in 2021 when they won it all, if not for DJ’s pick 6 in range of a FG.

Dude, I’ve been singing this song for years. We didn’t get good value for any of our trades in part because our personnel people had no clue and thought we had some talent and in part because we waited and lost value. This may sound weird but if Young doesn’t improve enough to be a playoff QB then I’m trading Horn. If Yoinh has a miraculous turn then I see us keeping Horn. We can’t win without a solid QB so as you said, paying Horn through the nose is burning cap to rollover until we can compete and get a good QB.

CMC missed no time his first three years and his 2nd injury year he came back and we shelved him after we lost huge to Miami and Marty start building up his excuses. If we had a chance to make the playoffs, he would have played. I remember that game and still don't know when he got hurt. Horn hasn’t finished a single season yet. We need to see that first.