WhoKnows

We always overvalue our players in here. I was poo poo’d last year saying we had a bottom tier WR corps, dropping off hugely after DJ who also isn’t in the top tier elite guys. We lost DJ and now we have a stud WR group? I really hope Mingo is stud in waiting. The 2015 season is a great example of Cam spreading it around, but we lost in part when Cotchery couldn’t just make the catch without needing replay and when Ginn tipped a ball for an interception. We lost the 2017 playoff game because we had no WRs and haven’t been back since. I don’t know why we have this thing for not wanting stud WRs because of 2015 when Smith is such a beloved ex-player and our WR weaknesses have showed up to help end our last two playoff games.

I just looked up the trade and let’s clarify a bit. The Jets didn’t really get a 2nd for Moore. They turned their 3rd into a 2nd for Moore. Also, that 2nd was one part of a package for Rodgers including a likely 2024 1st rounder and moving up a couple picks in the 1st. Again, Moore was low man on the totem pole for the Jets. They added Lazard, Hardman and Cobb to Wilson and Davis. That’s 5 WRs ahead of him. Moore was disposable and they did a good job getting value for him. I think my point stands that the “best” route runners minimum targets were set a bit low. If Moore was the 6th best WR on his team before the trade, it’s hard to take it seriously calling him an NFL best.

Moss, TO, Fitzgerald, Smith and Julio all played in the Super Bowl. Would we have been better off as a team with Dilfer instead of Cam? Football is a team sport and all of these guys were literally a play away from being SB winners. That one play doesn’t mean star WRs are worse than a group of good WRs. Calvin is the only one who didn’t get close but Detroit was horrifically bad overall his career. The last 4 SBs had AJ Brown, D. Smith, Higgins, Chase, Kupp, Godwin, Evans, Hill and Deebo. That’s a lot of star WRs. Out of the last 8 SB teams, only KC with Mahomes and Kelce didn’t have a stud WR. The other 7 teams had 1 or 2 stud WRs.

Ok buddy. I wasn’t aware that the Jets traded him but my point stands that obviously the Jets had no room for him with Wilson and all their additions like Lazard.

Gotta love when the minimum is what the leader had. On one route, Hill had 54 targets. Elijah Moore was the best WR at comeback routes. He had an overall grade of 57.5, which sucks and he likely isn’t making the Jets roster. We really are trying to hype up TMJ in here but a guy who’s touted here as the best deep ball guy in the NFL only has 1 TD and it was against garbage time backups when we were already losing by 35? I hope he’s as great as people think in here but I’m waiting until he’s not playing against CJ and Taylor. I still hope Mingo balls out because I’m hoping for better than TMJ’s finish. I see all this TMJ was rolling under Wilks, but in the last 6 games he had 0 TDs and had 1-8, 1-18, 3-51, 2-55, 2-15 and 2-23 as our starting WR2.

You got me, but context matters. I am not defending him as being a good coach. I was “defending” him there by correcting a misstatement, that he held players back by not playing them. That was a reply to another person on playing time (he was wrong) that you turned into player development.

SMH. Not defending Rhule at all. Sometimes I really wonder about reading comprehension around here. I said 2 things. One was that Rhule played rookies a lot and never hampered them by not playing them and the second was that we truly don’t know if he was horrible at player development. Given how much we laud our last 3 first rounders and Chinn (also Burns became a pro bowler under Rhule), maybe he wasn’t that bad or maybe they’ll be first team all pros with the new staff. No other players in the 2020-2022 drafts are so talented that we truly know if Rhule sucked developing them or that we over drafted them. Considering we took TMJ over Humphrey and Deonte and a long snapper over Trey Smith when we were desperate for OL in 2021, I’m honestly on the side of drafting poorly, in which Rhule was absolutely involved. Personally, I don’t think we are hiding studs. I’d say odds are 99% that our success and failure has to do with Young and the coaches and 1% with the chance that we have multiple hidden pro-bowlers that will be developed by the new staff.I’m excited about Young and the proven talent we have, not so much the long shots people think Rhule ruined.

And? Rhule sucked, we know that but one thing that was blatantly not true is that he somehow didn’t play rookies. TMJ, Iky, Horn, Brown, BC, Tremble, Taylor, Pride, Chinn, YGM, Hubbard, Smith and maybe a couple more all played significant minutes as rookies not counting injuries and many started day 1. That was the only point I made, nothing in my post about development. I truly have no idea if Rhule was any good at development. We laud Brown, Chinn, Iky and Horn and say they are top talent and he was the coach. Would they be even better? No one can say, yet. We traded away a lot of good picks so did we hit on good players after the first and Rhule ruined them or are they just mediocre talent? We’ll know better on a couple of them this year.

Is his speed a detriment? 4.59 40 at the combine feels slow.

What a terrible pick that was with a stud G sitting there for the taking. All the G talk with Corbett out and BC rated as our weak spot and Deonte is never mentioned even though he’s in year 3. I know it was a 6th, but Smith, Mays and Norwell types are around. Maybe they were considered more hard working than pure talent or maybe they had the talent but slipped due to non-football reasons, they are still the chances you want to take not projects that need a huge amount of work to be able to play at a high level. Glad we learned with Mays. Hopefully, we keep sticking to that formula for day 3 picks because we are a long way from being a deep team.

Totally agree. We don’t even know what post-Achilles Donte is and Horn has to demonstrate staying on the field, especially at the end of the year when it counts. Still also not completely sold on the pass coverage in safety land. I’m also with you on WR. I’m hoping Bryce is the real deal and elevates them but I’m still taking the TMJ breakthrough with a large grain of salt when the tweet also mentions Taylor slipping. The secondary the WRs are practicing against is garbage right now. I’m also a little worried that I don’t recall seeing a single tweet so far on Mingo balling. I expect any vets to handle CJ and Taylor, but I’d like to see some sparks from the rookie.

Damn, we have to have the smallest QB and LT by 100 lbs.

Ordering a meatball sub for later?

You can’t help it can you, lol. Gotta get the last word in, but I’ll let you reply again and let you have the last word. It is funny that you complain in every thread about other people complaining and don’t see the irony.

It is but it did make for some interesting posts. I had RBs autocorrected to Arabs one time on a FF board and it slightly changed the post.

Dude, just stop. You aren’t that guy. You think you are, but you aren’t. Rhule comes up in every thread. He sucked bad enough, no need to invent stuff, so if I want to correct someone with facts, I will. I really don’t care about your opinion so feel free to not reply to my posts.

Always blame autocorrect. Also, it’s grammar with an A.

I still don’t get this. Again, I always feel like I have to caveat this with a yes, Rhule sucked and I don’t ever want him back, but it’s not true. All the complaints about Rhule and rookies are really unfounded. There were tons of people in here that thought Iky should be eased in as a G first. He was named starter at the start of training camp and never once got a snap at G. Brown, Chinn and Horn all started day 1 as well. Any rookie that played well started day 1. Even TMJ, who wasn’t good as a rookie played half the snaps as our WR3. Tremble started 11 games as a rookie. Pride started 8 games as a rookie. YGM hasn’t done much but he also started 7 games as a rookie and Roy started 9 games as a rookie. We complained about BC not playing T for Rhule and yet here we are and no one’s complaining that he’s the starting LG. He also started 6 games as a rookie and all 17 in his second year. We haven’t exactly hit the jackpot in the draft from 2020 to 2022, but we’ve used and started a lot of rookies. Rhule didn’t dilly dally on a single 1st rounder. Horn, Brown and Iky were all starters in training camp and all started day 1. God, I really hate defending Rhule but I will and hopefully it contributes to one day not hearing him come up in every thread.

I’m over him not getting traded, purely on the value we could have gotten to help Young, but that win and in Tampa game last year was about as meaningful as it gets. With Horn out, we needed some pressure from him and got very little. Luvu had a way bigger impact that game.

Yep. We know Rhule sucked but what player trying to earn time isn’t going to throw the old regime under the bus and say good things about the new one? You can tell it’s all puff when Tremble said that the team trusts him, which is why they didn’t draft a TE. No, we had holes at WR and Edge as well (bigger needs than TE with Hurst) and after the Young trade we didn’t really have a chance to pick a TE. If Kincaid was there when Mingo was picked, I don’t doubt we would have taken a TE.

My youngest is trying to pick the game or maybe 2 games that I’ll take him to for his birthday and he’s stoked. I’m a bit more subdued but I’m very much liking the direction. Still pissed Tepper didn’t use my tank for Trevor plan, but glad we at least boarded the top rookie QB train. Just would have been nice to not waste 3 years in the process! I mean, what clown thought we’d compete with Teddy, Sam and Baker. Their names even sound like they should be working at Krispy Kreme not QBing our team.

I understand the reluctance. I’m ecstatic that we finally got a rookie QB I like after three years of putting lipstick on pigs. I also remember the playoff seeding talk after week 3 in 2021. We weren’t saying fire Rhule after a competitive 2020 (8 of 11 losses by 1 score) without Cam, Luke, Bradberry and CMC for 13 games. I remember people saying Teddy would throw for 4000 and 30. We’ve won a max 7 games in 5 years even with two 17 game seasons. Some of us are worn down by the losses. Even with a bit of sparks last year, we still choked during the huge Tampa game. Our division sucks so we’ve got a chance but Young’s a rookie so we’ll likely have growing pains. I think some people do want to be right more than winning, which is odd, but some of us are just being realistic. I don’t think TMJ is going to be the next big thing but if he turns into Chase, lol, I’ll be glad.

No worries at all, snowflake! I don’t even like Levis and think he’ll need some sort of huge revelation to become a good starter. Also, no insecurities here, just replying my observation of some of the folks in here that take their support of players a wee bit too seriously. I mean some of the posts about CMC saying he enjoyed being in SF instead of playing for Rhule after all his buddies (Cam, Olsen, Luke, TD…) we’re gone turned into the offense was much better when he left, which amazingly enough was incorrect. I’m all in on Young and the coaches.

The worst time of year for Football is now, after the draft and before training camp. The practices are fluff for reporting and you still have 90 guys rostered. I’m looking forward to preseason games just to see something real. Huge turnover like 2020, so even the preseason will be interesting.