WhoKnows

lol. I’m hoping Bryce becomes Tom Brady and Johnathan Brooks becomes Barry Sanders. I’m feeling 4000-30TD+ Teddy B vibes or 1000-8TD+ TMJ projections. Hoping XL and TMac turn into a fringe HOFer and a first ballot HOFer is crazy talk. I don’t know if it’s the haven’t had a winning season since 2017 or never having back to back winning seasons, but this place is comical when it comes to the overrating of our players.

To be fair, the UDFAs being discussed at the start are the top UDFAs who get the largest guaranteed numbers. A quick google found an article from 2016 saying that 20% of the 500+ UDFAs made the week 1 roster. 2-3 per team. The top UDFAs draws are thinking mainly about team fits to make the roster where salaries dwarf the $250k. The non-top UDFAs are happy to chase the money and just want a shot, but those guys weren’t part of the original discussion about the highest guarantees being paid out.

And why did we offer him the most money? Because our WRs sucked and he and his agent knew it. Agents aren’t going to say no, but making the team as a UDFA isn’t akin to lottery odds as you said and he and his agent got $1.8M in OTAs. That was their goal. $225k is peanuts compared to Coker’s likely lifelong Panthers income and if he went to a team with a stocked WR corps for $250k, he would have screwed up. I don’t know why this is even up for debate. His agent got him $1.8M over 2 years by OTAs because it was the easiest roster for a good UDFA WR to make. All things equal, take the extra $20k if offered but our situation is absolutely why he signed here not an extra $20-40k. Having an easy road to $1.8M (and more) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new Camry.

Lol, that is so wrong. “The money” as you said is under $100k difference. Coker’s agent got him a $1.8M extension during OTAs. Below’s a quote I found. It’s dark, but it says 20%, not exactly lottery odds. Not all last the whole year but each team is still adding a couple/few every year. For “good” UDFAs, they will take the money but they are 100% going to teams where they think they can make the roster. Making the roster is life changing money. In 2016, 117 of 590 undrafted free agents (19.8 percent) made a Week 1 roster or injured reserve, and another 125 (21.2 percent) made a practice squad, according to the NFL Players Association.

Seriously? You actually think Coker signed with us for the money? Dude made the team easily and got a 2 year deal that dwarfed the UDFA money. Sorry, but you are smoking crack if you think that Coker and his agent weren’t looking at the Panthers are the easiest team to make the 53. It was and he got a two year deal on May 10th. That’s how easy it was for him to make the 53, he got a contract during OTAs.

It won’t. The top UDFAs aren’t caring about the extra $20k or $40k that Tepper is giving out when selecting the right team and making the team gets you $800k for year 1 and maybe even more year 2+.

Agreed. I’m not sure why we think UDFAs are 100% about the money and us throwing money means we got the best ones. Sure, all things equal, get what you can get, an agent/player are looking to stick with a team. I got into a back and forth with someone in here about this when we signed UDFAs after the draft and ended the discussion with the below. Just look at Coker last year, do you really think he signed with the Panthers for the most money and not because our WRs sucked? He got a $25k bonus and $225k guaranteed. Thats nice and all but what did Coker get by being able to make the team and stick for year 2+? He got $795k for 2024 and $960k for 2025. The UDFA guarantees are nice but the top UDFA players are absolutely 100% trying to find the best team fit. Again, talking about the guys who have the ability to make the 53, not guys who are jumping at any offer they can get. Making the team as a UDFA gets you 4-5x the initial money.

No, some of us will see Humphrey 1 and Frazier 2. We know about Frazier but don’t forget that when C was a huge hole without Kalil, we took TMJ right before Humphrey. Lots of us in here wanted OL, OL and more OL that draft but we liked Erving and Elflein better. Could have had Slater, Humphrey, Smith, Moton and even BC anchoring the OL for years. Could have had Garrett Wilson and $150M for DL as well. It’s truly groundbreaking how bad that Fitterer dude was.

Especially since you had your pick of Williams, Daniels and Maye. Just like Stroud before, we’d probably be OK with the trade up had we picked Stroud instead. Just because the Bears may mess up some picks doesn’t mean the trade is better. They could have take Jalen Carter instead of the T who hasn’t been great.

We haven’t had more than 7 wins in 7 full seasons. Of course even us “tankers” would have been happy with the playoffs and all of us said that in 2022 until Mike Evans beat us. Our problem is that we didn’t get the picks with trades that most bottom teams try to do so that they don’t get pick 9 and have to trade away the farm. A team like Houston desperately needed a QB and since they had pick 2, it cost the nothing extra to get Stroud which meant they could also trade up and get Will Anderson. That resulted in two playoff appearances in two years, two more than we’ve had in 7 years. We had to give away marquee picks and lose one of our best players because we almost got to the playoffs which launched our culture with 7 wins and 27 losses the past two years.

I’m not missing anything. I agree completely. I’ve given examples where 1 extra win cost us Herbert over Brown and 3 1sts from SF over Horn. Those meaningless wins didn’t improve our culture but they sure impacted our talent. Winning culture comes from actually winning and good coaching. Having the best players actually on our team helps.

It really doesn’t. Go look at the Lions draft history from 2021-2023. They turned around their team from joke to SB contender by picking 6 pro bowl players in 3 drafts. Look at the 2020-2023 Houston drafts. Started with 2 pro bowlers in 2020/2021 as a base and then added Stingley, Stroud and Will Anderson in the last two drafts along with a bunch more starters and depth. Houston had a terrible massage parlor culture and a couple greats drafts getting 5 stud players turned them into a winning culture. This slow burn win a little more and more works far less than just drafting well and in the cases above tanking a bit (trade Tunsil, Watson, Stafford, etc. and not after losing value) actually helped. There aren’t many, if any cases of bad teams trading up and being great. KC doesn’t count as Alex Smith had them in the playoffs every year.

There in lies the rub. We don’t have a winning culture yet because we haven’t had a winning season since 2017 (8 years away now) and it’s weird how that’s not understood. I hate to say it, but Fitterer fuged U.S. hard by trying to win with a no talent team and trading away the house. Last year’s team, QB and HC all showed promise. The problem is that talent wise we are still miles from the top teams. Before people interject with the we played KC and Philly tough, the Matt Rhule and Bridgewater led meh team of 2020 lost to both 1 seed teams by the same one score margin and we had chances to win both of those games. That’s the NFL, bad teams often surprise the top teams. The KC team Rhule almost beat was far better than the 2024 Chiefs. Anyway, I’m legitimately worried that we are absolutely going to get stuck in that 7-10 to 10-7 range where we can win our crap division but we don’t have the talent to do anything else and we can easily have an bad injury year and our depth gets us an under .500 finish. Someone mentioned Detroit and until we have some of their drafts, like Gibbs, LaPorta, Branch and Campbell in 2023, we are going to be middle of the road for a while. Let’s hope the 2025 draft class is it.

Adios and good night, done talking about what we should have done but it’s weird when anti-tankers try and get back on the high horse.

Yes. Fitt said he liked Young for two years. He hitched his wagon to him. Reich and Young were going 2-15, nothing I said we should get would have saved him. A new coach plus Tepper (and Morgan) would have wanted the draft assets we kept or got to be used by a better GM/Coach. SMH, you need to read my post and your own again. You said: “So we should have sold off all of our talent and what?” I was being sarcastic that they still were in the roster because the guys you are saying we shouldn’t have sold off got sold off anyway but instead of getting full value, we got scraps. We had an opportunity to sell at the highs and instead we let the stocks lose 50-75% and then sold them. Because we didn’t tank in 2022 when the Rams basically handed the idea to us, we either set the team back several years to where we won’t do anything and will be back at the drawing board or kept enough talent off the team that we may make the playoffs but we still won’t be a top team like an extra handful of 1st rounders could have gotten us.

It was nothing. It was a nice run in an easy schedule that did nothing but lose us DJ Moore and a lot more. We were 2-15 in 2023. Based on your logic, that winning finish should have been a launching point. For as much as you want to say we shouldn’t have taken a risk, you still can’t admit that the plans we tankers laid out were proven correct. There’s no revisionist history. We said we should have traded Burns to the Rams. We said we should have sold off anything not bolted down like Brown and Horn and even Icky because they were in the 5 year plan. There is no disconnect, we tried to keep winning and draft a rookie QB and we lost about 4 1st round picks of value that could have been given to the guys you think might be the right crew.

All 3 of them played in the playoffs. Tua is 38-24. We are 24-60 since Tua’s been in the league. Lol at Luck being a bad pick. I love Cam but Luck has more playoff wins and more pro bowls even with his injuries, missed years and early retirement. How about the Texans trading away their stars for a bunch of firsts and starting Davis Mills for two years to get the #2 pick with no trade up and selecting Stroud? See, if you pick the right QB it can work.

Both Rams 1st rounders would have been Morgan’s picks. Also, if we didn’t have to trade the boat for Young, the 1st overall pick we gave away would have also been Morgan’s pick as Fitterer tied his future to Young and Young’s rookie year with Reich was going to tank Fitterer regardless. There would be no excuse to keep him longer. Also am I in the twilight zone here? Should have sold off all our talent? Are Moore, Burns and CMC still on the roster now? I feel like I would have noticed them last season.

Seriously? A CB who missed all that time on his rookie deal and was also a top 10 pick when the guys picked right before and after have been studs. A RB our GMs tried to replace with FAs and 2nd rounders and two backup level players is one of the best drafts we’ve ever had? I’d argue that the 2011/2012 drafts were better even with just Cam and Luke/Norman. Here’s the drafts I think were better: 2017, maybe 2018, 2015, 2013, 2011, 2012, 2008, 2007, 2001, 2002 (just Pepp) I’m hoping 2025 is way better as well. Honestly, we’ve kind of sucked at drafting overall and that’s the only reason you can even remotely call Horn, Hubbard, Tremble and BC a good draft let alone one of our best ever. Good teams that draft well would laugh at that as a great draft. If you want to look at say the 2023 Lions draft, you’d get 4 stud/above average/average starters not just 3 replaceable starters/backups and a top 10 pick that missed half his games. That’s a draft that helps turn a team into a playoff team. Our record since our 2021 draft is 19-49. A best ever draft doesn’t go 19-49.

It’s not even the players they got. Pick wise, they got a massive haul for us to jump from 9 to 1 when Young was so risky. If we took Stroud, I’d feel a bit differently but that haul for Young was not good for us. The fact that the Bears may not have drafted great is not the point. They could have taken Jayden Daniels and Jalen Carter and we’d be having nightmares over the trade.

Fees nowadays are ridiculous. After purchasing concert tickets for my son’s 18th birthday and paying the rest of our HHI trip with 3 other families, I’m shocked at how much they are. Honestly, it’s grand theft. Some is taxes but in a world where everything is electronic, fees should be cheaper. Electrons don’t cost 10-30% of the event.

Nope, that’s not the disconnect. In 2022, our GM knew he was going QB in the 2023 draft. You are talking about risking fans involvement on a team that’s been basically bottom 3 in the NFL from 2018 to now. There is no risk when you are that bad. We were right to want Fitterer to tank in 2022 and get rid of anyone who could bring us big value and extra cap room for future years when we aren’t winning 2-7 wins a year. We knew we wanted a rookie QB so we didn’t trade assets for picks and get a better draft slot so we ended up only getting a 2nd for Burns and threw in DJ Moore plus an early 2nd instead of a 1st, which basically lost us an early 2nd. The “risk” to our franchise’s losing culture ended up being around 4 1sts of total value. Yep, I refuse to listen to the other perspective that lost us around 4 1sts of value. At least our fan involvement is so high that our stadium isn’t chock full of visiting fans since we’ve won so much since 2022. Again, you won’t change my mind that we should have tanked in 2022 and had another 2-4 Browns/Horns on this team.

It can happen but it’s nothing like the NBA. One player doesn’t make the difference in the NFL that one player can in the NBA. Also, there are just not the same amount of trades and even opportunities. Because the NFL isn’t just one stud away, you don’t get a lot of opportunities like Miami did with Tua or the Jets did with Zach Wilson. Both teams got multiple 1sts for players they traded (Jets had 5 1sts in 2021-2022 and Miami had 5 1sts in 2020-2021) and both got top 5 picks to select a QB. They both made some good and bad picks but Miami turned Tua into multiple playoff appearances even though Tua isn’t elite. Wilson was just so bad that the Jets still sucked. We had our opportunity in 2022 where we would have had 6 1sts and 4 2nds in 2023-2025 and probably had a top 5 pick in 2023 or 2024 for a QB without trading up. Unfortunately, Fitterer didn’t have the foresight to realize a full rebuild was necessary and when a team offers you 2 1sts and a 2nd for a non-QB like Tunsil and Burns, you take it. One thing I wish trades had in the NFL that they have in the NBA is protected picks. A moron like Fitterer could have a top 5 protected pick so his terrible GMing doesn’t accidentally give the Bears the #1 overall pick because the moron Fitterer incorrectly thought we were 1 player away from the playoffs.

Honestly, feels like our home games are much harder. Ignore the division games. Home will be Dallas (I know, but they had our number last year), Buffalo, Miami, Rams and Seahawks. Road is Jax, Jets, Arizona, New England and Green Bay.

Again, the front office isn’t playing. Doug Pederson aside, tanking has nothing to do with players and coaches. The black Sox weren’t tanking, they were point shaving if you will. They got money to lose. Tanking is all about the FO getting better future assets in reward for making their team weaker. Tanking for a draft pick slot or tanking to get a young prospect or tanking to get future picks. Again, no playing to lose but there absolutely aren’t hundreds of examples of trading away talent for future picks and prospects which invariably makes your current team worse thus bettering your draft pick slot (potentially, no guarantees).