MHS831

As a rookie, I thought Jones was going to do well. I think BB is not the QB whisperer he thought he was.

I give Alabama the nostalgic advantage--Namath, Stabler, Starr, Todd, etc.---OSU does not even have a name to drop from last century! and I think Tua and Jones are better than what OSU has put on the field so far---but not by much. The greatest OSU QBever by far was benched and transferred to LSU. I don't really think this matters much--you have to look at each player--but OSU's lack of success in the NFL is very interesting to me. (I know a guy who roomed with Art Schleister (sp) for a bit in Indianapolis when both were rookies. He had some stories--not related to the topic, really.)

I see that--I wish I knew more about it. In my head, I am pulling for Stroud to "break the mold" and step up while I am in awe of Young's maturity and acumen.

What influenced me to go against my bias and select YOUNG? Reich will be calling the plays during the game. With the most intelligent QB to come out in years, he will be communicating--during the game--on a more sophisticated level. When I heard that Reich was "blown away" by Young's intelligence--I immediately went there in my mind. A cerebral coach with an NFL QB background would LOVE a cerebral QB on the field. If the OC were calling plays during the game, this would matter less to me--but when the HC/former QB is calling plays, he will value that in-game communication more than we probably realize.

Gives us something to do in the offseason--many people collectively making solid points for both QBs. I think it is fun--builds suspense.

Devil's advocate--If the two were equal in size, who is the better QB? Justin Fields is the best NFL QB to ever come out of Ohio State--he is completing below 60% of his passes and has 24 TDs and 21 Ints. Before him? A long line of busts who were solid at Ohio State. Name a QB who has had better WRs than Stroud? Is the Big 10 an easier conference than the SEC in terms of passing attack? In other words, is Stroud really that good, or is he fool's gold--another product of the system? Who is better throwing under pressure (Stroud or Young)? Don't get caught up in the visible measurables--there is a lot you cannot see. Pro Days and Combines simply shows what the body can do--it does not measure the mind/intelligence of the QB. That is what the Panthers are doing, but to assume that Stroud will break the OSU curse or that Young will be oft injured because he is small is bias. So--who do I want? Stroud--if he can process nearly as effectively as Young. Young, if he can process as quickly as I think he can--because nobody is his equal in that area, and that is the most important quality of any NFL QB. Sure--many may disagree--but the mind test is the most important comparison, imo.

I want Stroud as I mentioned, but I see Young in the cards for some reason. And, by the way, this mock draft is 100% accurate--it is exactly how this thing is going down.

You know, I do not mind a solid, impersonal debate to share views. However, some of you attack the person when they put their necks out there to demonstrate their views at the time. It seems that the people who never promote an original idea are the first to attack. This is not referring to one person or instance, but in general. No offense to Verge, but it takes some balls to share speculative theories based on whispers and innuendos, but some of you concrete operational literalists cannot handle any views that oppose your own. Sad. But to go back and post things that were shared in a speculative forum from last year to attempt to discredit someone is beyond pathetic. Stick your neck out--let's see those jelly beans you call balls doing something other than criticizing others behind a fake name on an internet forum. And I am not upset--this is just an observation after having read this thread. If you think your remarkable vision of the past is impressive and that your insult slinging is self-promoting, you need to ask others how it really makes you look. You will not like the honest responses. Again, not upset, angry, or anything other than a bit disgusted by the cowardice and cyber bullying that seems to be the MO of some Huddlers.

Hello fans, I thought I would get my needs lists out and do a mock based on best player available, need, and rumor (and I am out of the loop). It all starts with the Panthers selecting Bryce Young. There is a new era of QB in the NFL, but you still need a guy who is intelligent beyond his years--this matters for a rookie who will be expected to start day 1. I think the need for a 6-4 QB is still real, but in the grand scheme of things, a player who can lead, who can read (defenses), and who can feed (distribute the ball to players when they need it)--seems to be a player who can make everyone better. I am leaning Stroud, to be honest, but this is what I think the Panthers will do. A coach on the field is a valuable asset, and with a young QB coach and OC without play calling responsibilities, I see the marriage. To appreciate Young, you have to imagine the film room, practice, and meetings with position players. This is not to say that Stroud cannot be these things, but it is questionable how he will do without a prestine pocket and the best WRs in College football history to throw to--I mean, both of this tackles will also be first or second round picks. Not to say Bama was not ideal for a QB, but they experienced a bit of a dip at WR and maybe even RB. A nearly impossible call to make from my perspective, so I am going to guess what the Panthers will do based on what they KNOW. Yes, his size is a concern, but the new NFL rules that protect the QB and his excellent vision are second to none-he is elusive and smart with his body. 50% sure this is the pick. Let me know what you think without getting into the Stroud/Young debate again. I know both sides, lean Stroud, but think they will admire the brain of Young too much to pass up. 1. RD 1 Panthers Bryce Young, QB, Alabama 2. Texans CJ Stroud, QB, Ohio State 3. Titans (predicted trade) Anthony Richardson, QB, Florida 4. Colts Will Levis, QB, Kentucky 5. Seahawks Will Anderson, Edge, Alabama 6. Lions Jalen Carter, DL, Georgia 7. Raiders Peter Skoronski, OT, Northwestern 8. Falcons Tyree Wilson, Edge, Texas Tech 9. Bears Lukas Van Ness, Edge/DL, Iowa 10. Eagles Jaxon Smith-Njigba, WR, Ohio State 11. Cardinals Nolan Smith, Edge, Georgia 12. Texans Quentin Johnson, WR, TCU 13. Jets Parris Johnson, OT, Ohio State 14. Patriots Broderick Jones, OT, Georgia 15. Packers Michael Mayer, TE, Notre Dame 16. Commanders Christian Gonzalez, CB, Oregon 17. Steelers Joey Porter, CB, Penn State 18. Lions Devin Witherspoon, CB, Illinois 19. Buccaneers Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee 20. Seahawks Jordan Addison, WR, Southern California 21. Chargers Bijan Robinson, RB, Texas 22. Ravens O’Cyrus Torrence, IOL, Florida 23. Vikings Deonte Banks, CB, Maryland 24. Jaguars Cam Smith, CB, South Carolina 25. Giants Zay Flowers, WR, Boston College 26. Cowboys Dalton Kinkaid, TE, Utah 27. Bills Mazi Smith, DL, Michigan 28. Bengals Brian Branch, S, Alabama 29. Saints Hendon Hooker, QB, Tennessee 30. Eagles Kalijah Kancey, DL, Pittsburgh 31. Chiefs Will McDonald IV, Edge, Iowa State 32. RD 2 Steelers Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma 33. Texans Drew Sanders, LB, Arkansas 34. Cardinals Bryan Bresee, DT, Clemson 35. Colts Jalin Hyatt, WR, Tennessee 36. Rams Adetomiwa Adebawore, Edge, Northwestern 37. Seahawks Jack Campbell, LB, Iowa 38. Raiders John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota 39. Panthers Darnell Washington, TE, Georgia (The best player available and a long-term answer at TE. Still raw. I know this bothers some who think we are fine at CB, my next selection would have been fellow Bulldog Kelee Ringo, CB. Panthers may trade back into the round to get an additional third and an edge rusher)

A lot has to do with who plays where, how often are we in "Big nickel"--no, I am not happy with Henderson, Taylor, etc. And the 2 starters we have are rarely healthy. On paper, I agree, unless that paper is the medical report.

OK, Devil's Advocate time: Name a coach in the NFL that does not have an established relationship with QBs of prototypical size? Most QBs are that size--only rarely does a shorter QB make it to the NFL. Reich brought in taller QBs (inherited Luck) and they, for the most part, sucked ass. Rivers? Wentz? Ryan? They were all available when he needed a QB--and he thought he could help them succeed. Heck, 2 of those three were pretty successful before arriving at Indy. He benched Ryan....Maybe he is ready to start evaluating QBs using a different measure than size. Maybe the conversation with Bryce Young opened his eyes a bit--maybe he realized how easy it would be to communicate with a QB who was, for the most part, on his level as far as the position goes. You could argue that Payton at Denver has the reputation now for liking the shorter QBs--Brees and now Wilson--because he does not see the height as a problem. You could argue that Payton provided the blue print for how to help a small QB succeed. He brought in Winston--thought he could convert him--fail. So it is a bit of a lame argument to suggest that Reich only likes the prototypical NFL QBs because that is all he has worked with---there just aren't that many small ones in the league, and he was just fired with his third prototypical QB on the roster. I think that is like saying, "He only dates blondes with blue eyes when he lives in Finland (where 80% of the population is blonde and 89% have blue eyes).

He is the better football player because he is smart and makes the most of what God has given him. That is the kind of person you want leading your team. Again, you have to then ask, but is Stroud NOT that kind of player? If it were my decision, I think size is not as important at QB as intelligence and leadership. If Stroud is Young's near equal, you might go with Stroud--but I have a feeling that Young is "off the charts." That is the guy you draft because if you don't, he beats your butt for the next 10-15 years.

CB is a bigger need than we seem to realize--even if Action Jaxon were healthy, which he is not. I was hoping for a free agent--but crickets.

He is a sleeper with tons of upside Good call

Don't underestimate the value of a Nick Saban reference. NFL coaches have relationships with Saban like no other college coach.

With Bryce Young we seem to have a super QB prospect that checks all the boxes except size--gonna be hard to pass on him. I think he is a great person, someone who everyone likes--can rally around. I dunno, folks, but Stroud has the OSU curse--I am so confused--but I can assure you--Young isn't. I will be happy with either, but I am starting to see more comparisons with the greats--

Another situation where you take Stroud if he is nearly equal. I firmly believe in intelligence at the QB position. A smart QB not only makes good on-field decisions, but they allow the coaches to open up the playbook earlier and more often. Arm strength? Great. 40 time? Awesome. But what the great QBs have is something that is immeasurable--which is why it is so difficult to find one. Perhaps until now--Burrow, Mahomes, Brees, Allen, and even Mr. Irrelevant? That is pretty strong evidence that this test measures the right stuff.

All we have is tea leave reading. If this is leaked, it is leaked intentionally. It is almost like, "Hey everyone, I have a secret, but I really trust this particular member of the press with this information." The Press: "Sure!"

I looked at the free agent DT market, and there is not much available at NT. I think they are going to have to go with McCall and Roy--and you bring up a good point. NT is not the same as a 3t.

I see your point. But if we have a draft deep at Edge and TE (I would argue this: CB is fairly deep as well, and one is likely to drop) I would hate to sign a veteran on a big contract--we are going to have to make a few more moves, however, and this may play out as you describe.

Maybe not until after the draft---saving cap $ for something.

Of course it changes on draft day and all the boards and mocks fall apart after the first 20 picks or so, but I think the BPA is likely to be an Edge-I think there are 14 (about 10 of which would be good fits for the Panthers, imo) edge rushers in this draft that are good enough to start early. However, someone will fall--and that is what makes picking early in round 2 interesting

You and I are definitely in love with the same gems later--I (personally) would add Tyler Scott, WR Cincinnati to your WRs at the end of round 3/early 4. Vorhees will be recovering from surgery, but when he gets healthy, he can beast and play multiple positions. Perfect developmental OL/depth for now. Schoonmaker is the TE nobody is talking about but he is solid.

And Jake Delhomme--what's up with that?!!

Funny how we all have so many variations of opinions--probably because we have not seen the new system and how players will be used. But this is so wrong. It is just wrong. It is very incorrect. (Kidding--who the hell knows?) I see your point--I would love to see us grab a TE and OLB/Edge just because the draft is so deep there. I think we need a CB and possibly an ILB. Have no idea exactly what Luvu, Chinn, and YGM are going to look like. I think they should sign a free agent or two to help us prepare our mocks. Very rude of them.