Bad Hurney Contracts: Who's Left?

[TheRed]

I will converse with you, but you forget what you post faster than I can hit reply.

 

 

What exactly did you mean by "help Cam pack his bags" if that doesn't mean leaving the team?

 

 

This issue with you, is you don't think the Cap matters.  It didn't to the last regime, and that's why we were never consistent contenders.  Gettleman want's us to get there, but if he took your route, it's the same as the previous one.  We didn't have the money to overpay for Gross, Smitty, FA tackles, Capt, Mike Mitchell, etc....but you just keep right on beating that drum.

 

Nowhere have I said or implied that I "don't think the cap matters".

 

You are reading a bit much into that remark which was half joking really. But meaning if our idea of addressing the OL is addition by subtraction, we aren't helping ourselves talk Cam into a team friendly contract, let alone convincing him to sign here for 5-10 years or more.

[thefuzz]

NYG model on D built inconstant teams IMO. They were constantly knocked on their approach. They won rings but they weren't really one of the better teams in the NFL over that stretch IMO.

Sometimes being lucky and catching the right people at the right time is a bigger deal than people acknowledge.

Gettlemen's masterplan is something that has always made me nervous and why I wasnt a huge fan day 1.

He has grown on me though. Didn't like the way he entered this season though.....that he we downgraded at too many spots. Didn't improve anywhere but one position group

 

DG has said that he likes Hog Mollies, not just DLine.  He has not been in a position to fix the OLine yet, but I have full faith that he will.

 

He is not missing what is going on out there on Sundays, I can promise you that.

 

 

"Big men allow you to compete".  I think that he believes that.  And will work with some much needed space this offseason, and the following to get us competitive.

[thefuzz]

Nowhere have I said or implied that I "don't think the cap matters".

 

You are reading a bit much into that remark which was half joking really. But meaning if our idea of addressing the OL is addition by subtraction, we aren't helping ourselves talk Cam into a team friendly contract, let alone convincing him to sign here for 5-10 years or more.

 

You imply, not only in this thread, but others that we should have done many things differently in the offseason, but fail to attach to those moves the future, which is Cam, and his extension.

 

 

As to the half joking thing, and then snapping back at me when I say that you implied that Cam would quit on the team.....come on man.

 

 

Cam will not be taking a team friendly contract, please get that out of your head, it's not going to happen.  He will be paid what he is worth, (a freaking ton).

[CRA]

DG has said that he likes Hog Mollies, not just DLine. He has not been in a position to fix the OLine yet, but I have full faith that he will.

He is not missing what is going on out there on Sundays, I can promise you that.

"Big men allow you to compete". I think that he believes that. And will work with some much needed space this offseason, and the following to get us competitive.

and we went into the season with the worst OL in the NFL on paper.....and now in reality.

That isn't competing. And yes, he could of done something to make it better than it is.

[TheRed]

You imply, not only in this thread, but others that we should have done many things differently in the offseason, but fail to attach to those moves the future, which is Cam, and his extension.

 

 

As to the half joking thing, and then snapping back at me when I say that you implied that Cam would quit on the team.....come on man.

 

 

Cam will not be taking a team friendly contract, please get that out of your head, it's not going to happen.  He will be paid what he is worth, (a freaking ton).

 

Are you going to keep going on about all these things that I am supposedly implying (only in your mind), or are you going to support your stance about moving on from the only high quality player on our clearly talent lacking OL that is holding our team back currently?

 

I'm glad to hear that you are personally in the know on what kind of contract Cam will be taking. Care to offer anymore details?

[thefuzz]

and we went into the season with the worst OL in the NFL on paper.....and now in reality.

That isn't competing. And yes, he could of done something to make it better than it is.

 

 

Sure did, however, not much, if anything could have been done.

 

 

Saving cap space for the Cam and Luke extensions.

 

 

Did you see what decent OT's got paid this offseason?

[thefuzz]

Are you going to keep going on about all these things that I am supposedly implying (only in your mind), or are you going to support your stance about moving on from the only high quality player on our clearly talent lacking OL that is holding our team back currently?

 

I'm glad to hear that you are personally in the know on what kind of contract Cam will be taking. Care to offer anymore details?

 

I supported moving on from SS.....the only high quality guy in our WR corps.

 

 

I supported moving on from Beason....an injured, very expensive vet that was getting outplayed by a better, younger, cheaper player.

 

 

I will support cutting Kalil after next season if that means that we can afford to extend Cam and Luke.

 

 

I will support cutting DWill after this season and Stew after next....if that means freeing up cap space to pay a CB and a S.

 

 

 

 

As for your first line....do I really need to dig up every thread where you whined about cutting Smith?  Or about how unfair we have treated Cam?  Or about how Gettleman sucks, and didn't bring in any talent?

[TheRed]

I would not compare the situations of Smith/Beason/Dwill/Stewart to that of Ryan Kalil. He's a great locker room guy, and he's healthy.

 

Again, there's really no use for us to converse. You've completely deviated from the original discussion so I guess we're done.

[CRA]

Sure did, however, not much, if anything could have been done.

Saving cap space for the Cam and Luke extensions.

Did you see what decent OT's got paid this offseason?

Something always can be done in this league if you want it done.

We didn't have to enter this season with Bell and Chandler as starters.

I also said all offseason our Gs were just as bad as T.

You honestly telling me we couldn't of done something? We were forced to start 2nd/3rd string talent at every spot but C?

May not have a healthy QB to extend when all is said and done.

May also have a QB flex his muscle....always said letting Cam sniff that 5th year was dangerous. He has options at that point and will know it....if he wants to be like that. He could force things.

Never liked the Hardy tag to begin with.

[CRA]

I would not compare the situations of Smith/Beason/Dwill/Stewart to that of Ryan Kalil. He's a great locker room guy, and he's healthy.

Again, there's really no use for us to converse. You've completely deviated from the original discussion so I guess we're done.

Could argue the impact of an elite C vs above average vs average.....to a team with a non-rookie, 2nd year QB....isn't much.

Could argue the paycheck difference between Kalil and an average C isn't worth the difference of impact.

[TheRed]

Could argue the impact of an elite C vs above average vs average.....to a team with a non-rookie, 2nd year QB....isn't much.

Could argue the paycheck difference between Kalil and an average C isn't worth the difference of impact.

 

You could argue the paycheck difference, but at the end of the day it all entirely hinges on who the replacement is.

 

Gross retired and we replaced him with a cheap undrafted player in Byron Bell, but we see how that has worked out for us.

 

We did the same with the right tackle position with Nate Chander. Again, we see how that is currently working out for us.

 

If you want to adequately protect your quarterback, you've got to spend some real money at some point. It's as simple as that.

[KendrickPanther]

Hmm, would you care to explain further how that's not accurate given our current OL situation?

 

We've shown very little ability thus far to build an OL around Cam, and half of our starters/backups are undrafted, so yeah it's a problem. It isn't just about letting Kalil go, any GM can simply cut a player. But who will replace that player, and how good will that player be?

 

Obviously it's easy to simply talk about replacing players on a message board, but it's an entirely different thing to actually have to go about finding that viable replacement successfully. As our draft history has shown, it's also absolutely no guarantee that will happen.

 

You are arguing under the assumption DG thought this Oline would be good and therefore his talent evaluation is flawed. Guys like Reed and Voth reported all through camp the Panthers were nervous about the oline. 

 

Gettleman made long term decisions with short term implications. He could have pursued a Free agent but in the current market he would have had to offer a 5 year deal with significant guaranteed money. Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make. 

 

He also had the option to draft a lineman and he obviously didn't like what he saw. If he had committed to a 2nd round Tackle, we would have been stuck with the guy waiting to see if he develops like we are with Amini right now. When DG drafted Ealy he saw 2015 cap space. A huge massive tract of it.

 

Trai Turner looks promising, Kugbilla does not. DG has had 2 drafts and 2 free agent classes. It's too early to throw him under the bus, we need to see if these growing pains are worth it in the end.

[TheRed]

You are arguing under the assumption DG thought this Oline would be good and therefore his talent evaluation is flawed. Guys like Reed and Voth reported all through camp the Panthers were nervous about the oline. 

 

Gettleman made long term decisions with short term implications. He could have pursued a Free agent but in the current market he would have had to offer a 5 year deal with significant guaranteed money. Sometimes the best moves are the ones you don't make. 

 

He also had the option to draft a lineman and he obviously didn't like what he saw. If he had committed to a 2nd round Tackle, we would have been stuck with the guy waiting to see if he develops like we are with Amini right now. When DG drafted Ealy he saw 2015 cap space. A huge massive tract of it.

 

Trai Turner looks promising, Kugbilla does not. DG has had 2 drafts and 2 free agent classes. It's too early to throw him under the bus, we need to see if these growing pains are worth it in the end.

 

When I said "we", I guess I should have elaborated, that includes the entire FO. Hurney's past idiocy included.

 

It seems like every time people try to have a discussion it always comes down to "why are you blaming everything on Gettleman!".

 

If this board could ever get past that, maybe we could get somewhere.

[KendrickPanther]

When I said "we", I guess I should have elaborated, that includes the entire FO. Hurney's past idiocy included.

 

It seems like every time people try to have a discussion it always comes down to "why are you blaming everything on Gettleman!".

 

If this board could ever get past that, maybe we could get somewhere.

 

My way of thinking is we can't hold the current GM and his staff to blame for mistakes before Gettleman got here. I realize our scouts and most of the FO is the same. But Gettleman has changed our scouting agency to BLESTO and brought new ideas to our FO. 

 

Based on the way Steve's release was handled I get the feeling Rivera doesn't make many decisions.