Deangelo is a steeler now

[TN05]

Stats never tell a full story....it became obvious staring in 2011 he wasn't fitting well in our new team's direction. They found ways to make some plays for him and some big runs helped mask that on the stat sheet. He wasn't even the preferred RB....so that in itself isn't excellent.

And again based on his paycheck vs performance....he didn't do much over that time.

 

I disagree. He got more carries than Stewart and more touchdowns. On a whole I think the rushing attack was very good that year - Football Outsiders gave them the best running DVOA in their history, more than the 2000 Rams and 2002 Chiefs. Moreover the rushing attack was fairly balanced - DeAngelo got more carries and had a few more touchdowns, while Stewart had an extensive role in the screen game (47 catches). Both had 5.4 YPC. Football Outsiders had him as eight in DYAR (yards above replacement), third-best back in terms of DVOA (defense adjusted value over average) and 10th in YAR (yards above replacement). To be fair, in those same categories Stewart ranked higher - fourth in DYAR, fifth in YAR, and second in DVOA. But DeAngelo certainly did not have a bad year. 

 

For comparison, in 2012 DeAngelo ranked 25th in DYAR, 28th in YAR, and 26th in DVOA. That was a genuinely awful season. In 2013, DeAngelo was 12th in DYAR (a generic back would have finished with 126 less yards than he did), 20th in YAR,  and 16th in DVOA. That's a fairly average season, which I contend would have been better if we didn't play Stewart at all. So really I don't think it is fair to say DeAngelo didn't do anything.

 

Now, should we have resigned DeAngelo after 2010 in hindsight? No. Drafting Cam made either him or Stewart expendable, and there is no need to pay two backs good money to split carries when you have a QB who will take 30% of the carries and yards. Stewart was younger so we should have signed him. To me, it's very hard to get into a rhythm when you only get 10 carries a game - that's part of the problem. But we had him, and given our situation he didn't do half bad. 

[CRA]

I disagree. He got more carries than Stewart and more touchdowns. On a whole I think the rushing attack was very good that year - Football Outsiders gave them the best running DVOA in their history, more than the 2000 Rams and 2002 Chiefs. Moreover the rushing attack was fairly balanced - DeAngelo got more carries and had a few more touchdowns, while Stewart had an extensive role in the screen game (47 catches). Both had 5.4 YPC. Football Outsiders had him as eight in DYAR (yards above replacement), third-best back in terms of DVOA (defense adjusted value over average) and 10th in YAR (yards above replacement). To be fair, in those same categories Stewart ranked higher - fourth in DYAR, fifth in YAR, and second in DVOA. But DeAngelo certainly did not have a bad year.

For comparison, in 2012 DeAngelo ranked 25th in DYAR, 28th in YAR, and 26th in DVOA. That was a genuinely awful season. In 2013, DeAngelo was 12th in DYAR (a generic back would have finished with 126 less yards than he did), 20th in YAR, and 16th in DVOA. That's a fairly average season, which I contend would have been better if we didn't play Stewart at all. So really I don't think it is fair to say DeAngelo didn't do anything.

Now, should we have resigned DeAngelo after 2010 in hindsight? No. Drafting Cam made either him or Stewart expendable, and there is no need to pay two backs good money to split carries when you have a QB who will take 30% of the carries and yards. Stewart was younger so we should have signed him. To me, it's very hard to get into a rhythm when you only get 10 carries a game - that's part of the problem. But we had him, and given our situation he didn't do half bad.

Stewart played a larger percentage of offensive snaps than any RB in our entire division in 2011. Why? Bc he made things work. He was the best option. He helped set up the offense. That doesn't show up on his stats....and why stats don't ever tell the full story...Stewart made plays work. That made him the BEST option

Not Williams.

and Williams had a lot of plays designed for him that year....playing off the threat and attention Cam and Stewart created. Big play for us. Williams gets the stat sheet credit. Newton and Stewart played big roles....but stat sheet wouldn't let you know that.

So why did 28 play the largest percentage of snaps in our division?

[TN05]

Stewart played a larger percentage of offensive snaps than any RB in our entire division in 2011. Why? Bc he made things work. He was the best option. He helped set up the offense. That doesn't show up on his stats....and why stats don't ever tell the full story...Stewart made plays work. That made him the BEST option

Not Williams.

and Williams had a lot of plays designed for him that year....playing off the threat and attention Cam and Stewart created. Big play for us. Williams gets the stat sheet credit. Newton and Stewart played big roles....but stat sheet wouldn't let you know that.

So why did 28 play the largest percentage of snaps in our division?

Because we used him extensively in the receiving game, while DeAngelo was not.. As I mentioned, FO saw him as the better back and DeAngelo as also being top ten. He had nearly 1,200 total yards (about as much as DeAngelo had in 2013, FTR).

I understand you don't like DeAngelo Williams. But 2011 was a really good year for him - statistically or otherwise. Not being as good as one player does not mean you aren't good.

[CRA]

Because we used him extensively in the receiving game, while DeAngelo was not.. As I mentioned, FO saw him as the better back and DeAngelo as also being top ten. He had nearly 1,200 total yards (about as much as DeAngelo had in 2013, FTR).

I understand you don't like DeAngelo Williams. But 2011 was a really good year for him - statistically or otherwise. Not being as good as one player does not mean you aren't good.

We used him extensively bc he made plays work. Period. Read option runs, play actions, etc.

It wasn't bc he was simply a good reciever at RB. It was his between the threat in the read and play action ultimately that earned him those snaps.

I don't hate Williams. Hated signing two RBs to featured deals. Hated the impact it had on us. Then I hated having one that wasn't a natural fit in our O.

People to this day can't seperate disliking an individual vs disliking a situation created.

[TN05]

We used him extensively bc he made plays work. Period. Read option runs, play actions, etc.

It wasn't bc he was simply a good reciever at RB. It was his between the threat in the read and play action ultimately that earned him those snaps.

I don't hate Williams. Hated signing two RBs to featured deals. Hated the impact it had on us. Then I hated having one that wasn't a natural fit in our O.

People to this day can't seperate disliking an individual vs disliking a situation created.

 

I agree Stewart had a good season... really an underlooked one. I just don't think there's any way you can justify saying Williams didn't have a good year as well, though.

 

And you've been so critical of Williams that's why you have the reputation. I agree the contract was a bad idea. Was it Williams' fault for taking it, though? No. I agree with cutting him. Was it his fault? Yeah. I agree that his production steadily declined. I hope he has a nice year and can crack 10,000 yards from scrimmage before he retires. I just don't see a reason to trash him as a '3rd or 4th option' on the Steelers. That's absurd when you look at the backs behind him. He's not a horrible player - he's average. Maybe slightly above average with a good line.

[frash.exe]

Hate's a very ambiguous word. For the record, I've never hated DeAngelo Williams. I just hated the idea that people had that we needed him here, because we didn't. The only reason he was re-signed is because Marty Hurney can't evaluate a depth chart. For years he spoonfed the fans on this lofty aspiration of a backfield with two 1,000 yard rushers, and that it was our identity to establish, and I knew it would flop then, and so did many other people which is why we were so vocally against it. If you actually thought it was going to work that way and carolina was going to bring back the glory days where the best team is the one that runs the ball the most then you're either lying to yourself or you were actually that big a fool.

[CRA]

I agree Stewart had a good season... really an underlooked one. I just don't think there's any way you can justify saying Williams didn't have a good year as well, though.

And you've been so critical of Williams that's why you have the reputation. I agree the contract was a bad idea. Was it Williams' fault for taking it, though? No. I agree with cutting him. Was it his fault? Yeah. I agree that his production steadily declined. I hope he has a nice year and can crack 10,000 yards from scrimmage before he retires. I just don't see a reason to trash him as a '3rd or 4th option' on the Steelers. That's absurd when you look at the backs behind him. He's not a horrible player - he's average. Maybe slightly above average with a good line.

You said "excellent"....I disgareed with that.

That is the standard old Williams junk. Claiming he was excellent, or too 5 RB, or whatver wild statement is made about him....someone disagreeing with the over the top claim......then countering with why I don't think he was "good" is crazy. I never said it wasn't a good year. Good isn't excellent

[TN05]

You said "excellent"....I disgareed with that.

That is the standard old Williams junk. Claiming he was excellent, or too 5 RB, or whatver wild statement is made about him....someone disagreeing with the over the top claim......then countering with why I don't think he was "good" is crazy. I never said it wasn't a good year. Good isn't excellent

FO pegged his season as being top ten or even top five. Not a stretch to call that "excellent". I'd argue he's had three 'excellent' seasons, with 'excellent' defined as being top ten or top five: 2008, 2009, and 2011. He was a top-five or ten back those years. His 'good' seasons (2007 and 2013) were middle-of-the-road type years. The only truly bad years he's had were 2012 and 2014.

And yes, you did. You said he hadn't done anything in the last four years.

[CRA]

FO pegged his season as being top ten or even top five. Not a stretch to call that "excellent". I'd argue he's had three 'excellent' seasons, with 'excellent' defined as being top ten or top five: 2008, 2009, and 2011. He was a top-five or ten back those years. His 'good' seasons (2007 and 2013) were middle-of-the-road type years. The only truly bad years he's had were 2012 and 2014.

And yes, you did. You said he hadn't done anything in the last four years.

Williams wasn't a top 5 RB in 2011.

And again, I said based on what he was PAID TO BE.....he didn't do much over those 4 years.

[TN05]

Williams wasn't a top 5 RB in 2011.

And again, I said based on what he was PAID TO BE.....he didn't do much over those 4 years.

 

According to FO he was in at least one category. 

And again... HIS CONTRACT IS NOT HIS FAULT. Stop blaming him for it. He did about as much as you'd expect an aging back splitting carries three or four ways to do. If anything you should be more pissed off at Jonathan Stewart.

[CRA]

According to FO he was in at least one category.

And again... HIS CONTRACT IS NOT HIS FAULT. Stop blaming him for it. He did about as much as you'd expect an aging back splitting carries three or four ways to do. If anything you should be more pissed off at Jonathan Stewart.

FO says lots of things....

NFL players are two things.....production and contracts. Both matter.

800 yards and 3 TDs for example.....that could be GREAT or HORRIBLE production. What decides it is how much the person who got it costs.

[TN05]

FO says lots of things....

NFL players are two things.....production and contracts. Both matter.

800 yards and 3 TDs for example.....that could be GREAT or HORRIBLE production. What decides it is how much the person who got it costs.

 

And how is that his fault? Please elaborate on that.

[SIGCHI222]

Looking forward to the pics he will post on his FB page of him and his daughter asleep on the couch in their Steeler footie PJ's until I ask myself, "Who the hell took the picture?"

Guy plays the PR angle like Liberace. 

 

 

[CRA]

And how is that his fault? Please elaborate on that.

It is what it is. Whose fault it is doesn't matter.