Newton vs Ryan; the verdict?

[†William Moore†]

​Ok so that's not a steady decline as you have been parroting everywhere you go. If you had looked carefully, you'd realize it was due to the fact that the number of attempts have decreased that's all.

​If it's not progression it's mediocrity then right? 

[†William Moore†]

Also, the total yards poo William Moore keeps babbling on about is really getting ridiculous when you look at pass attempts.

Each season that Ryan has thrown for 4,000+ yards, he's had at least 566 passing attempts.

The one season that Newton even had 500 passing attempts (it was 517) was his rookie year, and he passed for over 4,000 yards.

If Cam is such a great passer why doesn't he get more attempts? 

[CelibatePimp]

​If it's not progression it's mediocrity then right? 

​It's a bit difficult to say what exactly it is due to all the confounding factors. Newton had a steady increase in rating and TDs and a dip in INT from his rookie year until 2013. We all saw it as progress. Going into 2014, we expected big things but then he had to undergo surgery, got injured in preseason and couldn't get time to establish chemistry with his WRs. Some think it's no biggie but for us who were seeing a steady improvement in his game, it set him back.

This year I think will be a good time to gauge him, if he doesn't improve over his 2013 numbers, at this point he has peaked.

[CelibatePimp]

If Cam is such a great passer why doesn't he get more attempts? 

​How does the QB control that? He doesn't call the plays or decide what philosophy the team employs. I mean we hear Ryan is going to be doing more rollouts and bootlegs this season. Is that going to be because he is bad in the pocket?

[TheRed]

If Cam is such a great passer why doesn't he get more attempts? 

​I assume you know enough about us to realize that we switched coordinators and put heavier emphasis on our ground game, and sustaining longer drives that drain the clock.

The Panthers offense is obviously not a pass heavy offense like in Atlanta.

If you don't think Newton can pass for a ton of yards, I can't help you. But even if he did, we probably wouldn't be winning all that many games, because that would likely mean our defense has been getting gashed. Which is what you've been witnessing in Atlanta. Which is why, despite how potent your offense has been the last few years, you're still only 4-4 against the Panthers the last 4 years.

[†William Moore†]

​How does the QB control that? He doesn't call the plays or decide what philosophy the team employs. I mean we hear Ryan is going to be doing more rollouts and bootlegs this season. Is that going to be because he is bad in the pocket?

​Did you watch our games last year? His mobility in the pocket was better than ever. He looked like he could make it as a running QB in spots. His athleticism was majorly improved;hence more rollouts and bootlegs.

[†William Moore†]

​I assume you know enough about us to realize that we switched coordinators and put heavier emphasis on our ground game, and sustaining longer drives that drain the clock.

The Panthers offense is obviously not a pass heavy offense like in Atlanta.

If you don't think Newton can pass for a ton of yards, I can't help you. But even if he did, we probably wouldn't be winning all that many games, because that would likely mean our defense has been getting gashed. Which is what you've been witnessing in Atlanta. Which is why, despite how potent your offense has been the last few years, you're still only 4-4 against the Panthers the last 4 years.

​Understandable. But why shell out all that money for who has apparently been turned into a game manager? Unless his running is just that important? Hell Alex Smith is an excellent runner. You wanna put him on that level? I won't. 

[CelibatePimp]

​Did you watch our games last year? His mobility in the pocket was better than ever. He looked like he could make it as a running QB in spots. His athleticism was majorly improved;hence more rollouts and bootlegs.

​Yeah so it was not because he sucked in the pocket. Same with Newton, throwing less was not because he sucked as a passer, it was the philosophy the team wanted to go with.

[†William Moore†]

​Yeah so it was not because he sucked in the pocket. Same with Newton, throwing less was not because he sucked as a passer, it was the philosophy the team wanted to go with.

​Fair enough. But I still don't see him as a great passer. Wasn't there some article a few weeks ago that showed him having the most overthrows in the league or something to that effect? 

[TheRed]

​Understandable. But why shell out all that money for who has apparently been turned into a game manager? Unless his running is just that important? Hell Alex Smith is an excellent runner. You wanna put him on that level? I won't. 

​Game manager? Alex Smith?

You wonder why nobody wants to have a conversation with you, lol.

[CelibatePimp]

​Fair enough. But I still don't see him as a great passer. Wasn't there some article a few weeks ago that showed him having the most overthrows in the league or something to that effect? 

​Yeah there was, he overthrows his WR. That's more on mechanics which I am praying he gets a hold of otherwise it may be something we have to live with.

[tiger7_88]

"Ryan completes 64 percent of his passes; Newton 59.5 percent. Ryan has thrown for more than 4,000 yards in four consecutive seasons; Newton has done that once, his rookie year in 2011. Ryan's touchdown to interception ratio is 2.3; Newton's is 2.8. Ryan has thrown 22 or more touchdowns in six consecutive seasons; Newton has surpassed 21 once, throwing 24 in 2013. Ryan makes better overall decisions. He's a better pocket passer. He's got a better record (64-44 to 30-31-1). He's had four seasons of 10-plus wins; Newton has one."

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/13990

You can use that 'first four years' argument all day, fact is it's flawed because players have a tendency to do this thing called "getting better" Ryan went from being a game manager to a legit NFL QB over the course of his career. As of right now, he is without a doubt better than Cam Newton.

He probably still will be in a few years as well, if you wanna make that argument. Looking at Cam's yardage numbers go down every year and his TDs and INTs fluctuate randomly. I'll even include his rushing stats because they go down as well (even though they're not a QB stat)

2011-
4,051 passing yards, 21 TDs, 17 INTs
706 rushing yards, 14 TDs

2012-
3,869 passing yards, 19 TDs, 12 INTs
741 rushing yards, 8 TDs

2013-
3,379 passing yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs
585 rushing yards, 6 TDs

2014-
3,127 passing yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTs
539 rushing yards, 5 TDs

Now the obvious rebuttal is: " well if Ryan can get better why can't Cam??"

Here's the thing about that: If you want base your arguments in numbers (like you have) Ryan's went up in almost every category the first four years he was in the league.  You can see his progression. The only thing that stands out is his passing yards went down from 2008-2009. However, looking at the years following compared with his first year, it's an obvious aberration. Cam's have only regressed or stayed around the same exact clip. There's nothing that's an outlier with his stats.

Here's Ryan:

2008-
3,440 passing yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs

2009-
2,916 passing yards, 22 TDs, 14 INTs

2010-
3,705 passing yards, 28 TDs, 9 INTs

2011-
4,117 passing yards, 29 TDs, 12 INTs

It's funny, because Cam's first four years put in a vacuum and compared to others make him look great. But when you actually take a look at them, he's going down and inconsistency is really the only thing he's been consistent at.

So in reality...Ryan is better now, and will probably still be better in three years. Why? He is consistent and Cam shows sign of being that or getting any better.

So I pose a question Panthers fans, and I want serious discussion: What makes you think Cam will get any better? The numbers say he probably won't, the eye test shows he wasn't really 'himself' last year, and he just got a big contract. Is there any reason besides homerism to think he's going to turn it around all of a sudden?

​

I bet it was nice to have Julio Jones, Roddy White, Harry Douglas, and the best TE in NFL history to throw to all those years.

Instead of, you know, a selfish pass-the-ball-to-me-me-me-and-only-me Steve Smith, Brandon Lafell, Legedu Naanee, Armanti Edwards, Joe Adams, Kealoha Pilares, Louis Murphy, Ted Ginn, Jerricho Cotchery, Jason Avant, Corey Brown, and Brenton Bersin.  Oh, and yes, at least he had Greg Olsen and Kelvin Benjamin (for just last year) around too.

[CelibatePimp]

If the coaching staff were wise, they would realize that due to his arm strength, his intermediate passes tend to be flat balls that sail on him. He can get enough air under his deep balls. How hard will it be to get WRs who run intermediate to deep routes to help alleviate this issue. But Shula and co want to chug the ball 5yds/pass attempt.

[Mother Grabber]

If Cam is such a great passer why doesn't he get more attempts? 

ever heard of a balanced offense?