How to fix it (Coaching)

[Fiz]

just go ahead and get the next coach in. get started with the new regime. consider the rest of the year to be an evaluation of the team.

if cowher is who they want....just go ahead and make it happen.

right now i just don't care.

that's really unlikely, and it doesn't happen.

what can happen however is that jerry can call prospective new coaches, tell them to start assembling who their perspective teams would be, and insure the transition goes as quickly and smoothly as possible.

[koolkatluke]

Stubbornness is Fox's down fall. Not willing to give up on trying too run a Tampa 2 with a bad Dline. Not willing to hire a D-coordinator who would have some idea of how to implement more blitzing to help a bad dline. Pretty much hires puppets that run his outdated systems and do not offer counter opinions. Fox's runs a dictatorship instead of a football team.

Here is a list of things that Fox's Stubbornness has worked against him.

Sticking with players too long.

Hiring puppets instead of coaches with original ideas.

Not able to make game time adjustments.

Getting rid of players who don't fall in line.

Sounds more like 1940-1980 Russia then a football team.

[PuntJake]

Think about last season... we started kinda slow (with the exception of the W in SD) and played pretty good all season...

we didn't start slow. we went 3-1 in each quarter of the season. about as even as you can get.

[ant2125]

he does not have a "kill" mentality. it's pathetic. it has been that way since '05.

he got too much success too early. he lost his hunger and it is mirrored by the team.

QFT is sad that most people are just NOW noticing this.

[Khyber53]

Hiring a young offensive line coach to be your Offensive Coordinator: wrong.

Hiring a Defensive Coordinator from a team that HAD to score 30 points to beat out their opponents: stupid.

Honestly, Fox's football philosophy still makes sense. Strong offensive and defensive lines, power rushing attack, deep strike passing, and linebackers who can streak to the ball.

But they've hired coordinators that haven't been able to execute the plan. Davidson just doesn't have an inventive or attacking spirit (never saw any excitement on his face last night) and Meeks has turned the defensive into a mincing bunch of pansies.

Dan Henning fell on his sword, but he understood what we were trying to do -- he just never had the power runners after Stephen Davis was gone. He also either had Moose or Smitty, but never the duo together after the Super Bowl season.

Jack Del Rio was able to put together the defense that Fox had hoped for, but he got lured away quickly after the Super Bowl season. And it appears that he jumped up to Head Coach too soon, considering his success with Jacksonville.

And Fox, well, he just seems uninspired, lackluster. He doesn't look like he has it in him anymore to walk into the locker room and tell 'em, "We're playing for pink slips boys," like he did in 2002.

[Fiz]

Hiring a young offensive line coach to be your Offensive Coordinator: wrong.

Hiring a Defensive Coordinator from a team that HAD to score 30 points to beat out their opponents: stupid.

Honestly, Fox's football philosophy still makes sense. Strong offensive and defensive lines, power rushing attack, deep strike passing, and linebackers who can streak to the ball.

But they've hired coordinators that haven't been able to execute the plan. Davidson just doesn't have an inventive or attacking spirit (never saw any excitement on his face last night) and Meeks has turned the defensive into a mincing bunch of pansies.

Dan Henning fell on his sword, but he understood what we were trying to do -- he just never had the power runners after Stephen Davis was gone. He also either had Moose or Smitty, but never the duo together after the Super Bowl season.

Jack Del Rio was able to put together the defense that Fox had hoped for, but he got lured away quickly after the Super Bowl season. And it appears that he jumped up to Head Coach too soon, considering his success with Jacksonville.

And Fox, well, he just seems uninspired, lackluster. He doesn't look like he has it in him anymore to walk into the locker room and tell 'em, "We're playing for pink slips boys," like he did in 2002.

this is a terrible post

everything you've said is wrong or embarrassingly fantastical

go to your room and think about what you've done

[Khyber53]

Really Fiz? Expound upon your greatness! Explain why I'm wrong or lost in flights of fantasy.

Do you really think our coordinators are getting the job done?

Of course, this doesn't mean that Fox is off the hook, but really Meeks isn't known for an intimidating defense that can dictate a game. And Davidson quits playing to our strengths right after half time in each game.

They're Fox's guys, but he's not holding them to any culpability. They haven't gotten their squads up to competitive form. And neither one acts like its their butt on the line here, a sentiment apparently echoed in the game of their players.

[Kurb]

Fiz behave.

I agree with most of his post.

Of course we are all highly emotional after this start.

[Fiz]

Hiring a young offensive line coach to be your Offensive Coordinator: wrong.

he was an offensive coordinator in cleveland before he came to Carolina.

Hiring a Defensive Coordinator from a team that HAD to score 30 points to beat out their opponents: stupid.

Meeks was hired because he was willing to follow orders. He was running Dungy's defense in Indianapolis, and now he's running Fox's defense. Everyone is touting Tampa 2, Tampa 2, Tampa 2, but the defense is almost exactly similar.

But they've hired coordinators that haven't been able to execute the plan. Davidson just doesn't have an inventive or attacking spirit (never saw any excitement on his face last night) and Meeks has turned the defensive into a mincing bunch of pansies.

There is nothing happening to the defense that wasn't happening in the second half of last season. Davidson was the same offensive coordinator that was calling plays last year when they were so successful.

Dan Henning fell on his sword,

getting fired isn't falling on your sword, resigning is

but he understood what we were trying to do -- he just never had the power runners after Stephen Davis was gone. He also either had Moose or Smitty, but never the duo together after the Super Bowl season.

I mean I really can't imagine how you can have feasibly seen what the Panthers did last year, compare that to what they are doing this year, and are blaming it on the coordinator who was there for both years.

Jack Del Rio was able to put together the defense that Fox had hoped for, but he got lured away quickly after the Super Bowl season. And it appears that he jumped up to Head Coach too soon, considering his success with Jacksonville.

oh lord is it still this jack del rio nonsense?

from 2002 to last year, their rankings in scoring defense

5th, 10th, 12th, 15th, 5th, 8th, 15th, 12th

In Fox's first year they had their best defense. But obviously they didn't COLLAPSE, and obviously they were just as good later on as they were in 2002. Yeah, I think there might have been an initial hit, but there simply isn't any evidence that suggests the loss of Del Rio over the long term has been detrimental.

And Fox, well, he just seems uninspired, lackluster. He doesn't look like he has it in him anymore to walk into the locker room and tell 'em, "We're playing for pink slips boys," like he did in 2002.

this is dumb speculation

[jpo287]

he was an offensive coordinator in cleveland before he came to Carolina.

He was a OC on a LOSING team that really had nothing on a resume that stood out. I believe the only thing he had going for him at the time was Weiss's blessing and I think we all know how much that means now.

Meeks was hired because he was willing to follow orders. He was running Dungy's defense in Indianapolis, and now he's running Fox's defense. Everyone is touting Tampa 2, Tampa 2, Tampa 2, but the defense is almost exactly similar.

Fox hired a DC who's defense had 1 good year out of the last 6. What in the heck did he think Meeks could do here? As we used to say when doing interviews: if you want to know how someone will do in the future, look at what they have done in the past. It's that simple. And in Davis and Meeks, there just wasn't anything to see that warranted their hires.

There is nothing happening to the defense that wasn't happening in the second half of last season.

True... the one thing that is the same is the personnel.

Davidson was the same offensive coordinator that was calling plays last year when they were so successful.

True again but everyone has figured out how to stop his offense now and he has not made any adjustments. You simply get Smith out of the game and then stack the line to stop the run. You cover those two bases and you can stop the offense. It's become that simple.

I mean I really can't imagine how you can have feasibly seen what the Panthers did last year, compare that to what they are doing this year, and are blaming it on the coordinator who was there for both years.

see above

oh lord is it still this jack del rio nonsense?

from 2002 to last year, their rankings in scoring defense

5th, 10th, 12th, 15th, 5th, 8th, 15th, 12th

In Fox's first year they had their best defense. But obviously they didn't COLLAPSE, and obviously they were just as good later on as they were in 2002. Yeah, I think there might have been an initial hit, but there simply isn't any evidence that suggests the loss of Del Rio over the long term has been detrimental.

On that we agree wholeheartedly.

[Khyber53]

1. Sorry, forgot that Davidson had been OC for Cleveland before coming here. That should have spoke volumes and would have made an even better point on my behalf. Sorry about forgetting Cleveland. I'm sure he'd like to forget it as well.

2. You're speculating on why we hired Meeks here, not me. Unless you were privy to the interview process, you're idea that he was just supposed to be a Fox yes man, holds less water than my idea that he was hired to rejuvenate a faltering defense.

3. Actually, it's VERY reminiscent of the last games of last year on defense, except there's an even more pronounced sense of timidity. And there were so many blown coverages last night, by so many different defenders, that it appears systemic, which heads back up the chain to the DC. And Davidson did call the plays last year, coordinating everything from offensive line to the running game to the passing game. And this year, it ain't gelling, it ain't coming together, it ain't working. Doesn't that fall on his shoulders?

4. Yep, Henning was fired. You've got me there.

5. Yes, I can blame it on the coordinator who was here last year and this. He's got the same guys and even new weapons like Moore and Goodson. But the offense is disjointed, confused on a regular basis, oftentimes desperate and we do have a penchant for giving up on our running game way early. It's not just one guy on the field screwing it up every play, it's usually two or three guys at a time. That speaks to offensive confusion and a lack of confidence in themselves and the plays. That I do lay at the OCs feet.

6. Yep, I'll stand by the Del Rio comment. He was good. He didn't leave because he was stinking up the joint around here. He left because he got a head coach position.

7. Not speculation at all. That's how he came in in 2002 and righted the ship. Now, he's gotten almost all of his starters to return and darned few of them have played with the fire in their eyes that they are being given a once in a lifetime chance to play in the NFL.

[Fiz]

He was a OC on a LOSING team that really had nothing on a resume that stood out. I believe the only thing he had going for him at the time was Weiss's blessing and I think we all know how much that means now.

you said he was an offensive line coach. I was just pointing out that you were wrong.

Fox hired a DC who's defense had 1 good year out of the last 6. What in the heck did he think Meeks could do here?

exactly what he did in indianapolis: follow orders

As we used to say when doing interviews: if you want to know how someone will do in the future, look at what they have done in the past. It's that simple.

exactly, he followed orders.

And in Davis and Meeks, there just wasn't anything to see that warranted their hires.

uh, an unexpected vacancy happening late in the hiring season and no real other options?

that would assume they wanted a DC to actually change anything, which is a silly assumption to make.

True again but everyone has figured out how to stop his offense now and he has not made any adjustments.

the offense obliterated the Falcons JUST LAST WEEK.

You simply get Smith out of the game and then stack the line to stop the run. You cover those two bases and you can stop the offense. It's become that simple.

There are players open constantly. The strugglings of the defense have much more to do with Jake than anything else. Moose was open all night. Dante Rosario is constantly open.

[Fiz]

2. You're speculating on why we hired Meeks here, not me. Unless you were privy to the interview process, you're idea that he was just supposed to be a Fox yes man, holds less water than my idea that he was hired to rejuvenate a faltering defense.

except for the fact that the defense looks exactly the same, so either he was hired to change everything or "rejuvenate" it and has failed miserably, or he was just brought in to shepherd the same defense the Panthers have been running for years.

Hmmm wonder what's more likely

3. Actually, it's VERY reminiscent of the last games of last year on defense, except there's an even more pronounced sense of timidity. And there were so many blown coverages last night, by so many different defenders, that it appears systemic, which heads back up the chain to the DC.

or you could blame it on the common element. That would be the logical thing to do.

And Davidson did call the plays last year, coordinating everything from offensive line to the running game to the passing game. And this year, it ain't gelling, it ain't coming together, it ain't working. Doesn't that fall on his shoulders?

um no.

If you really wanted to blame JUST ONE PERSON, it would have to be jake. He can't execute the plays anymore. I watched the Falcons game last week from the stands in the end zone, and I watched the entire plays unfold in a way you can't see on TV.

Dante is always open.

Moose is always open.

Jake can't execute the plays anymore. It's an offensive coordinator's job to force the defense to sell out against one phase, then it's the quarterback or running back's job to make it hurt.

Who isn't doing their job?

4. Yep, Henning was fired. You've got me there.

I've got you everywhere else too.

5. Yes, I can blame it on the coordinator who was here last year and this. He's got the same guys and even new weapons like Moore and Goodson.

Goodson is a third string running back and Kenny Moore is just a warm body.

But the offense is disjointed, confused on a regular basis, oftentimes desperate and we do have a penchant for giving up on our running game way early. It's not just one guy on the field screwing it up every play, it's usually two or three guys at a time. That speaks to offensive confusion and a lack of confidence in themselves and the plays. That I do lay at the OCs feet.

they haven't hit their stride yet, but they really didn't hit it last year until about week 8. But the worst thing in this offense isn't miscues, it's Jake.

6. Yep, I'll stand by the Del Rio comment. He was good. He didn't leave because he was stinking up the joint around here. He left because he got a head coach position.

there is no evidence to suggest that the defense suffered significantly after Del Rio left. None. At. All.

7. Not speculation at all. That's how he came in in 2002 and righted the ship. Now, he's gotten almost all of his starters to return and darned few of them have played with the fire in their eyes that they are being given a once in a lifetime chance to play in the NFL.

oh great dumb speculation followed by dumb platitudes

tell me more about heart, and fire, and intensity, and believing in yourself.

[Khyber53]