Reviewing the Panthers Roster Prior to the Draft.

[Chardee MacDennis]

Great post OP. I get out of it the following:

1. We need better WR talent. Someone who can make plays in space, get separation, be a matchup nightmare, and has speed.

2. Disagree on OT. Kalil and Williams are guys who I think can be consistent starters. Williams will be developing and this is really only his 2nd year, after being injured much of his true 1st year. He might make big strides this off-season. Meanwhile, if Oher comes back full go, we have 3 solid OT options with a need for a 4th veteran who can be a backup when needed. That said, drafting a potential starting RT in the early rounds wouldn't upset me.

3. RB isn't as much a need as it is to evolve the offense. While I like this class, the 18 class is also really good in my opinion. If you get a good enough WR or TE in the draft you can start evolving the offense this season and further make strides with a RB in 18.

4. TE isn't a need either, but sure would be nice to solidify the future of the position through the draft.

5. Youth at Safety would be nice, but not necessary until next year.

6. I would not be opposed to finding a TD replacement in this draft.

7. Youth at DE would be nice.

8. The most glaring need to me is an offensive playmaker. We were simply too stagnant on offense last season. I blame Cam, Shula, Benji and the OL for it equally. But the bottom line is the offense needs to evolve and use players to their strengths better.

A see a guy like McCaffrey being a good fit in terms of need. He's dynamic, can play some WR, can help carry the load at RB, has speed, can return kicks and add an element to STs. Good head on shoulders, the Luke for our Offense.

I also see Fournette as a good fit overall, but not enough to vault this team to the super bowl. He wouldn't have as much of a chance to impact the game as a backup to Stewart. He'd be great for the future but not the best option for a playoff run this season, or an evolution on offense. Picking LF to me says we aren't evolving the offense, rather getting a younger Stew to help carry the load.

I like Solomon Thomas, as he infuses the DE group with youth and can be an every down DE as early as next year. Helps give Pepp and CJ rest this year, keeping everyone fresh for a playoff run.

Adams clearly would be great for the secondary.

Ross or Howard would be nice for the offense.

Point is, as long as a WR/TE/RB/DE/S are the first 3 picks of our draft, I think we will be fine.

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[TheSpecialJuan]

21 minutes ago, Chardee MacDennis said:

Great post OP. I get out of it the following:

1. We need better WR talent. Someone who can make plays in space, get separation, be a matchup nightmare, and has speed.

2. Disagree on OT. Kalil and Williams are guys who I think can be consistent starters. Williams will be developing and this is really only his 2nd year, after being injured much of his true 1st year. He might make big strides this off-season. Meanwhile, if Oher comes back full go, we have 3 solid OT options with a need for a 4th veteran who can be a backup when needed. That said, drafting a potential starting RT in the early rounds wouldn't upset me.

3. RB isn't as much a need as it is to evolve the offense. While I like this class, the 18 class is also really good in my opinion. If you get a good enough WR or TE in the draft you can start evolving the offense this season and further make strides with a RB in 18.

4. TE isn't a need either, but sure would be nice to solidify the future of the position through the draft.

5. Youth at Safety would be nice, but not necessary until next year.

6. I would not be opposed to finding a TD replacement in this draft.

7. Youth at DE would be nice.

8. The most glaring need to me is an offensive playmaker. We were simply too stagnant on offense last season. I blame Cam, Shula, Benji and the OL for it equally. But the bottom line is the offense needs to evolve and use players to their strengths better.

A see a guy like McCaffrey being a good fit in terms of need. He's dynamic, can play some WR, can help carry the load at RB, has speed, can return kicks and add an element to STs. Good head on shoulders, the Luke for our Offense.

I also see Fournette as a good fit overall, but not enough to vault this team to the super bowl. He wouldn't have as much of a chance to impact the game as a backup to Stewart. He'd be great for the future but not the best option for a playoff run this season, or an evolution on offense. Picking LF to me says we aren't evolving the offense, rather getting a younger Stew to help carry the load.

I like Solomon Thomas, as he infuses the DE group with youth and can be an every down DE as early as next year. Helps give Pepp and CJ rest this year, keeping everyone fresh for a playoff run.

Adams clearly would be great for the secondary.

Ross or Howard would be nice for the offense.

Point is, as long as a WR/TE/RB/DE/S are the first 3 picks of our draft, I think we will be fine.

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nice

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, KB_fan said:

As many people have noted in recent weeks, the Panthers aggressive free agency means we've got a sizeable roster headed into the draft.  The Panthers roster currently stands at 80 players.  The roster limit for training camp is 90 players.  We have 8 picks in the draft, plus the chance to bring in UDFAs and more free agents.  Where is DG going to make space for all the new players?!

While it is WAY WAY WAY too early to make any real roster predictions, I did find it helpful to review the roster today, trying to further assess at what positions the Panthers could really use help from the draft and to look at what players might already be on the bubble, at the risk of being released if we draft new talent.

Here's an overview of the roster broken down by position, and with an attempt to subdivide the players for each position into 3 priorities. 

1. probable starters/key rotation guys  
2. depth / backups; 
3. camp fodder / practice squad types

It surprised me quite a bit to discover I could easily come up with a pretty darn solid 53 man roster of category 1 & 2 players, with very few holes, (especially on Defense, Offense has some questions & holes still.)

Here's an overview of the roster, looking at the numbers of players at each position.

 

One would think that with 41 offensive players and 35 defensive players currently on the roster that we might have more holes on defense.  But I don't think that's the case at all.  We've got TONs of WRs & OTs (18 total at these 2 positions) on the roster, but many many are likely guys we're just churning through to see if we can find a diamond in the rough.  Even with 18 players on the roster at these positions, these are still two of our areas of greatest need.

Here's a look at all the players on offense and defense, grouped by position, with my rough classification as to what categories they fit in.

Players in blue are more or less presumed starters / key role players.  Yellow are the backups / depth to fill out the 53 man roster.  Red presumably will get cut.

Offense:

 

On the Oline, obviously we can't have 3 starting tackles, and it's not a position where one uses a rotation.  If Oher is healthy enough to start, Daryl Williams becomes a backup, perhaps competing with a newly drafted tackle.  If we think Williams and/or any newly drafted tackle are suitable backup at guard, a player like Chris Scott or Amini Silatolu could be let go.   I predict Larsen will win the Center backup role over Gradkowski.  In any case, there is definitely room to draft a tackle.  With Matt Kalil on the roster, and IF Oher is healthy, we could perhaps get by without drafting any tackle, but I know we'd all like to see Gettleman find someone to draft and develop for the future and to strengthen our depth at this position.

QB is obviously not a need, but if a player (Dobbs) we like falls to us at one of our later picks, who knows, we could draft one as a developmental project, especially with Cam not being able to throw until training camp.  If we were to end up drafting Christian McCaffrey, that could put Joe Webb's spot on the roster in danger as he is our "utility offense guy" (RB backup, WR backup, returner.)  Obviously McCaffrey could not fill the QB3 slot on the roster though, and I think we'll want 3 QBs on the roster this season given that Cam's coming off shoulder surgery.

RB/FB:  There is room for another starter / main rotation player.  I've given Stew & Fozzy the highest priorities, but really only Stew is safe.  CAP seems to be very much on the bubble given that he's been given hardly any playing time in 2 years.  Fozzy would probably be safe (he was one of the first players we re-signed this off season.  Coaches like him.)  if we were to draft Fournette, but would be doubtful to keep if we draft McCaffrey.  As for Fullback:  I assume we keep a dedicated FB on the roster, assuming Darrel Young or Devon Johnson show the necessary talent.  Obviously we might look for a different FB, but I'd guess that would be through Free Agency rather than the draft.

TE:  Only Olsen is a sure thing.  We went through how many TEs on the roster last season?  And still we ended up with Greg & Ed Dickson.  We all would like to see an upgrade from Dickson.  There is definitely a spot on the roster for a TE... We could "live with" Olsen / Dickson & Simonson again.  But why SHOULD we when this is a really really talented TE class.  I will be extremely disappointed if we don't draft a TE in the 1st 3 or 4 rounds.  To ignore this need would be very shortsighted.

WR is far and away the biggest question mark on our roster.  Really only KB and Funchess can assume to be pretty sure of a roster spot at this point.  (And even Funchess could be bumped down or off the roster if someone clearly beats him this summer, though I doubt we give up on him just yet.)  We obviously hope Shepard & Charles Johnson#2 will add something to the WR stable, but none of us have seen them take a snap in Panther Blue, so they're not certain yet.   Byrd excites a lot of the fans but he's having surgery this offseason, could be tough for him to gain a spot.   WR competition will be WIDE OPEN yet again, and there is space to draft/add 1 or 2 WRs to compete & upgrade this position.

So, in summary, looking at the roster, I identify these priorities for the draft on offense:

1. WR:  (need)
2. OT: (need)
3. RB: (less a NEED than an opportunity with a really deep & talented draft class and wanting to strengthen & evolve on offense and limit Cam's runs)
4. TE: (need / opportunity.  Dickson's not adding much.  This is a very good TE class.)

• Guard: no need.
• Center: no need if we like Larsen or think Gradkowski is solid enough
• QB:  if a promising talent is there are one of our later picks.... why not?

 

DEFENSE & Special Teams:

 

On Defense:  DANG, Dave Gettleman has done a fantastic job this off-season filling holes.  Apart from the question of the AGE of a lot of our players on defense (a valid concern, which I'll address in a minute), I'd be pretty happy with our potential 53 man roster (the blue & yellow guys) even if we didn't add ANY new player on defense!  Seriously, look at that defensive roster and realize that for ANY new draft pick on defense to make the 53 man roster, one of the 26 players in blue or yellow is going to have to go.  WOW.  TOUGH TOUGH choices ahead in building the roster on defense.

The guys most on the bubble would seem to be

• Ryan Delaire
• Kyle Love
• Zach Sanchez  / Teddy Williams (or really any of the CBs behind Bradberry / Worley / Captain)
• Dean Marlowe

Basically, the only issue on defense is AGE.  We need talented youth to develop behind Peppers & CJ, TD and Mike Adams.

On D: I think we should aim for 2 players in the draft:  A young talented pass rusher is the biggest need,  then a strong safety.

CB it would be nice to have more depth / competition to push Worley.   At LB: we've got decent depth already, but it wouldn't hurt to "replace" AJ Klein.  Shaq is already being well-groomed to be able to take over for TD when the horrible day of his retirement comes, but with AJ gone, it's worth starting to develop another new LB.

But apart from a DE to play in rotation to learn behind Pep & CJ and to give us some young legs among the DEs, we're not looking at needing to draft a starter or key rotation player on Defense.  We're looking a DEPTH and developmental players.   This is a huge reason why I keep saying I want us to go offense heavy in the early rounds of this draft.  It's on offense we have more holes & question marks.   Our current Defensive roster could go out and start tomorrow.  We have the luxury of being able to strengthen the depth behind the presumed starters, but we've got a very solid defense already.

All told, I want to see us come away with about 6 players out of our 8 picks in the draft:

• 2 or 3 high picks going to Offensive Weapons: (RB / TE / WR)  (rounds 1 - 3)
• 2 or 3 mid - high picks (rounds 2 - 4) for DE & S or OT
• 1 mid to late pick BPA at any position where we could strengthen our depth:  (CB, LB, QB)

 

This is awesome--The question then becomes, "Where are we thin?" 

[Nails]

31 minutes ago, Chardee MacDennis said:

Great post OP. I get out of it the following:

1. We need better WR talent. Someone who can make plays in space, get separation, be a matchup nightmare, and has speed.

2. Disagree on OT. Kalil and Williams are guys who I think can be consistent starters. Williams will be developing and this is really only his 2nd year, after being injured much of his true 1st year. He might make big strides this off-season. Meanwhile, if Oher comes back full go, we have 3 solid OT options with a need for a 4th veteran who can be a backup when needed. That said, drafting a potential starting RT in the early rounds wouldn't upset me.

3. RB isn't as much a need as it is to evolve the offense. While I like this class, the 18 class is also really good in my opinion. If you get a good enough WR or TE in the draft you can start evolving the offense this season and further make strides with a RB in 18.

4. TE isn't a need either, but sure would be nice to solidify the future of the position through the draft.

5. Youth at Safety would be nice, but not necessary until next year.

6. I would not be opposed to finding a TD replacement in this draft.

7. Youth at DE would be nice.

8. The most glaring need to me is an offensive playmaker. We were simply too stagnant on offense last season. I blame Cam, Shula, Benji and the OL for it equally. But the bottom line is the offense needs to evolve and use players to their strengths better.

A see a guy like McCaffrey being a good fit in terms of need. He's dynamic, can play some WR, can help carry the load at RB, has speed, can return kicks and add an element to STs. Good head on shoulders, the Luke for our Offense.

I also see Fournette as a good fit overall, but not enough to vault this team to the super bowl. He wouldn't have as much of a chance to impact the game as a backup to Stewart. He'd be great for the future but not the best option for a playoff run this season, or an evolution on offense. Picking LF to me says we aren't evolving the offense, rather getting a younger Stew to help carry the load.

I like Solomon Thomas, as he infuses the DE group with youth and can be an every down DE as early as next year. Helps give Pepp and CJ rest this year, keeping everyone fresh for a playoff run.

Adams clearly would be great for the secondary.

Ross or Howard would be nice for the offense.

Point is, as long as a WR/TE/RB/DE/S are the first 3 picks of our draft, I think we will be fine.

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Fournette would not back up Stewart.  Stewart would back up Fournette.

[KB_fan]

9 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

This is awesome--The question then becomes, "Where are we thin?" 

My thoughts on 4 Thinnest areas of the roster.

1. WR

2. DE YOUTH

3. OT depth if Oher can't play

4... CB depth

 

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, KB_fan said:

My thoughts on 4 Thinnest areas of the roster.

1. WR

2. DE YOUTH

3. OT depth if Oher can't play

4... CB depth

 

This. I think the fact that we've been thin as can be at WR for years and for the majority of our franchise's existence to be honest has made Panthers fans numb to realizing how big our need is at WR. I hope one of the FA acquisitions can amount to something and I hope Funchess wakes up, but we shouldn't be counting on it. I'd love to add a WR in the 2nd. A legit WR, not a project or a measurables guy. A guy who can actually run routes and consistently catch a football.

[KB_fan]

1 hour ago, Panthers8969 said:

Great post OP. You have me feeling really good about the defense. One thing that sucks to see is how old some of our players are though. Team could look pretty different in 2-3 years

Yup.  We've got some really CORE guys / Panthers legends & leaders nearing the end of their playing careers.

TD, CJ, Peppers

Ryan Kalil, Greg (not drafted by the Panthers, but has become a Panther legend), Stew

I think this has quietly played a role in pushing our front office into more of a "win now" mentality even though Dave G. swears he doesn't believe in windows.  Who doesn't want to see TD, Peppers, CJ, Greg, Ryan Kalil... win rings before they retire?!  Now is the time.  Got to make the push.

[Nails]

9 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

This is awesome--The question then becomes, "Where are we thin?" 

Any DE rotation with Horton in the top 4 is thin.  I won't even talk about Delaire because he makes me physically sick!!!!!!  Addison has missed games, CJ may miss more than he plays (no such thing as a minor back injury), and Pep, though a freak, is 37 and needs to be rested and ready next February to send us all into ecstasy by rocking Brady into retirement.  Not gonna get a guy that broke Reggie White's sack record at the end of the 1st in 2018.  Just saying.

[KB_fan]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This. I think the fact that we've been thin as can be at WR for years and for the majority of our franchise's existence to be honest has made Panthers fans numb to realizing how big our need is at WR. I hope one of the FA acquisitions can amount to something and I hope Funchess wakes up, but we shouldn't be counting on it. I'd love to add a WR in the 2nd. A legit WR, not a project or a measurables guy. A guy who can actually run routes and consistently catch a football.

Anyone you're particularly hoping for?

There seems to be a lot of fan interest in Zay Jones, Chris Godwin & Henderson,  I'm not sure I know enough to judge who would help us most.

[LinvilleGorge]

If we don't draft a pass rusher in the first three rounds I'll be shocked. Trading Ealy virtually confirmed that IMO. Gettleman loves his pass rushers and our DE corps is old.

[Chardee MacDennis]

Fournette would not back up Stewart.  Stewart would back up Fournette.

Disagree. You don't start a rookie over a vet like Stew. If anything, they will split reps all game long. And if Stew needs a week of "Rest" then LF goes all game. I would be highly surprised if Stew didn't start over any RB taken.

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[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, KB_fan said:

Anyone you're particularly hoping for?

There seems to be a lot of fan interest in Zay Jones, Chris Godwin & Henderson,  I'm not sure I know enough to judge who would help us most.

Those three in that order. Zay Jones has been my guy at #40 for a long time.

If the first two days of the draft went according to plan for me, assuming no trades, we'd end up with:

Leonard Fournette, Zay Jones, DeMarcus Walker, and Jordan Leggett.

[KB_fan]

12 minutes ago, Nails said:

Any DE rotation with Horton in the top 4 is thin.  I won't even talk about Delaire because he makes me physically sick!!!!!!  Addison has missed games,

No team has 4 Pro-bowlers at DE.  Horton played a pretty solid role in shoring up our run D and helping set the edge when he began to get a lot more playing time towards the 2nd half of last season.  I could easily see us go with 9 on the Dline on the 53. 

Peppers / CJ / Addison / Horton / newly drafted DE

KK / Star / Butler / Love

 

Re: Addison missing games...  NOT MANY

http://www.panthers.com/team/roster/Mario-Addison/3bff919b-c6bc-4b78-a228-150cb59268a8

http://www.panthers.com/team/roster/Mario-Addison/3bff919b-c6bc-4b78-a228-150cb59268a8

2016:  played in 14 of 16

2015:  played in 17 of 19

2014:  played in 18 of 18

2013:  played in 17 of 17

[Nails]

11 minutes ago, Chardee MacDennis said:

 

Disagree. You don't start a rookie over a vet like Stew. If anything, they will split reps all game long. And if Stew needs a week of "Rest" then LF goes all game. I would be highly surprised if Stew didn't start over any RB taken.

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Then we don't need to choose one at 8 overall then, especially at a devalued position.