LaDainian Tomlinson on the Panthers offense

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

7 hours ago, KaseKlosed said:

LT's brain is not the best. Sounds like he hasn't read a book outside of a playbook his entire life. He does not study film today. His opinion is not relevant 

LT knows more about football more than anyone here in this forum. His opinion holds more water than the opinion you gave which has large holes in it.

[JARROD]

18 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Disagree. I definitely wouldn't put Newton in a West Coast system. Outside of his mobility, his skill set just wouldn't fit.

I see some folks taking this like it's an insult to Newton. It really isn't.

Tomlinson is talking about a system mismatch. It's no different than saying Kuechly wouldn't be a good fit in a 3-4 defense (which, for the record, he wouldn't).

We don’t know that. You just assume that like a lot of people do. 

Also, there is no pure WCO anymore as plenty run on first down, run single back sets etc which pure WCO opposed heavily.

Actually there is no pure anything anymore,. All offensive coordinators that mold and fit what they want.

Jon Gruden is probably the closest to an old school WCO that I’ve seen and I even saw him run on first down and run single back sets. That’s not Bill Walsh— Colonel Klink ran the hell out of Adrian Peterson and had TJax before Favre— that was a “WCO” guy-

those systems being rigid like old kungfu movies is complete BS

Cam would shine under a Bruce Arians, Shurmur, McVae, Pederson and many others.and at one point in Steelers nation, Ben was said to be a bad fit for Bruce until that was proved wrong— system types be damned.

actually Auburn’s simple offense, a take off Chip Kelly’s blur offense,.. is a WCO offshoot,..fast and simplified execution.

Cam ate that up.

its all how stiff and complicated the play caller wants to be or how smooth and fast they are (Gruden vs Sean McVae).

some make it too paralyzed stiff and slow(Norv)—some make it much more smooth and fast(Pederson)

we need a Pederson type of playcaller. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, JARROD said:

We don’t know that. You just assume that like a lot of people do. 

Also, there is no pure WCO anymore as plenty run on first down, run single back sets etc which pure WCO opposed heavily.

Actually there is no pure anything anymore,. All offensive coordinators that mold and fit what they want.

Jon Gruden is probably the closest to an old school WCO that I’ve seen and I even saw him run on first down and run single back sets. That’s not Bill Walsh— Colonel Klink ran the hell out of Adrian Peterson and had TJax before Favre— that was a “WCO” guy-

those systems being rigid like old kungfu movies is complete BS

Cam would shine under a Bruce Arians, Shurmur, McVae, Pederson and many others.and at one point in Steelers nation, Ben was said to be a bad fit for Bruce until that was proved wrong— system types be damned.

actually Auburn’s simple offense, a take off Chip Kelly’s blur offense,.. is a WCO offshoot,..fast and simplified execution.

Cam ate that up.

its all how stiff and complicated the play caller wants to be or how smooth and fast they are (Gruden vs Sean McVae).

some make it too paralyzed stiff and slow(Norv)—some make it much more smooth and fast(Pederson)

we need a Pederson type of playcaller. 

Every quarterback in the league has a skill set, even the great ones. That's why Drew Brees is setting records in New Orleans instead of San Diego while San Diego did just fine with Philip Rivers.

As to Newton, we've noted he's not a timing and rhythm quarterback. In a Coryell, that's nice to have. In a WCO style, it's essential. Hence, why you hear announcers talk about trying to "disrupt the rhythm" of WCO quarterbacks.

There's also the terminology issue. Newton has said himself he struggles with playcalling terminology. And while Coryell terminology can be complex (E-P simplifies it) West Coast terminology is like trying to learn Japanese from someone who speaks Farsi.

I know people freak out at the suggestion that Newton can't do anything, but talking about system fit is not an insult. Frankly, there are very few quarterbacks who I'd trust to run multiple systems, and I'd no more throw Newton into a West Coast scheme than I'd put Brees or Brady in a read option.

I'd add the best WCO guy out there right now is probably Shanahan (it comes with the family name).

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

1 hour ago, JARROD said:

We don’t know that. You just assume that like a lot of people do. 

Also, there is no pure WCO anymore as plenty run on first down, run single back sets etc which pure WCO opposed heavily.

Actually there is no pure anything anymore,. All offensive coordinators that mold and fit what they want.

Jon Gruden is probably the closest to an old school WCO that I’ve seen and I even saw him run on first down and run single back sets. That’s not Bill Walsh— Colonel Klink ran the hell out of Adrian Peterson and had TJax before Favre— that was a “WCO” guy-

those systems being rigid like old kungfu movies is complete BS

Cam would shine under a Bruce Arians, Shurmur, McVae, Pederson and many others.and at one point in Steelers nation, Ben was said to be a bad fit for Bruce until that was proved wrong— system types be damned.

actually Auburn’s simple offense, a take off Chip Kelly’s blur offense,.. is a WCO offshoot,..fast and simplified execution.

Cam ate that up.

its all how stiff and complicated the play caller wants to be or how smooth and fast they are (Gruden vs Sean McVae).

some make it too paralyzed stiff and slow(Norv)—some make it much more smooth and fast(Pederson)

we need a Pederson type of playcaller. 

Yes there is 100% WCO because the Seahawks have been running that for years and continue to do so now as well as few other teams.

[JARROD]

1 hour ago, rbsponsel52 said:

Yes there is 100% WCO because the Seahawks have been running that for years and continue to do so now as well as few other teams.

Not really— they run single back sets and run on first down...

its the language, and that’s where it molds from,..

but it’s not Bill Walsh.

none are

also, read my next post below and tell me what language the Seahawks are running— I’ll give you a hint,.. Norv Turner runs it.

again, find ONE in the article that runs a pure anything,  

they either add more vertical or more play action, more of this or that, college, 

Chip Kelly had a dramatic impact— read how many run his concepts in their offense, regardless of language.

there are no pure systems.

its all MIXED martial arts now, not some Kung fu movie,.. 

[JARROD]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Every quarterback in the league has a skill set, even the great ones. That's why Drew Brees is setting records in New Orleans instead of San Diego while San Diego did just fine with Philip Rivers.

As to Newton, we've noted he's not a timing and rhythm quarterback. In a Coryell, that's nice to have. In a WCO style, it's essential. Hence, why you hear announcers talk about trying to "disrupt the rhythm" of WCO quarterbacks.

There's also the terminology issue. Newton has said himself he struggles with playcalling terminology. And while Coryell terminology can be complex (E-P simplifies it) West Coast terminology is like trying to learn Japanese from someone who speaks Farsi.

I know people freak out at the suggestion that Newton can't do anything, but talking about system fit is not an insult. Frankly, there are very few quarterbacks who I'd trust to run multiple systems, and I'd no more throw Newton into a West Coast scheme than I'd put Brees or Brady in a read option.

I'd add the best WCO guy out there right now is probably Shanahan (it comes with the family name).

Many simplify— and it’s on the playcaller to install the system.

i still say it’s really whether the playcaller is stiff and slow or loose and smooth.

as far as timing— Cam has done extremely  well in fast no huddle environments where anticipation and timing prevail— and has excelled.

so I’ll say it’s a perception thing with his “timing” more than reality.

 

[JARROD]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Every quarterback in the league has a skill set, even the great ones. That's why Drew Brees is setting records in New Orleans instead of San Diego while San Diego did just fine with Philip Rivers.

As to Newton, we've noted he's not a timing and rhythm quarterback. In a Coryell, that's nice to have. In a WCO style, it's essential. Hence, why you hear announcers talk about trying to "disrupt the rhythm" of WCO quarterbacks.

There's also the terminology issue. Newton has said himself he struggles with playcalling terminology. And while Coryell terminology can be complex (E-P simplifies it) West Coast terminology is like trying to learn Japanese from someone who speaks Farsi.

I know people freak out at the suggestion that Newton can't do anything, but talking about system fit is not an insult. Frankly, there are very few quarterbacks who I'd trust to run multiple systems, and I'd no more throw Newton into a West Coast scheme than I'd put Brees or Brady in a read option.

I'd add the best WCO guy out there right now is probably Shanahan (it comes with the family name).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/sports/every-nfl-teams-best-offensive-play/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0dcb6065cf20

try that one.

and skill set or not— an effective play caller can adjust to their quarterbacks skill set regardless of system.

mike holmgren famously heavily adjusted his WCO concepts to match Brett Favre.

again, just like you guys will read in the article— there is no pure system out there.

you guys think in a box too much, label too much— the real world is colors, not black and white.

Anyway— I believe Cam would benefit more from a guy like Pederson or Others that are great at adapting their concepts and play calls to their passer and receivers they have.

Pederson went from a pro bowl short intermediate passer like Wentz to a long ball improviser like Foles and won a Super Bowl..

its guys like that, not glued to a box or black and white.

Cams skill set is perceived in a lot of his skin color and hyperbole—

the fact is when he’s had timing throws in fast offenses he’s been accurate and quick— equally I think when the plays are too clunky they have mixed results

right now as LT said— they are clunky— Cam is trying to learn Clunky—

[gorillamilitia13]

On 10/15/2018 at 12:57 AM, Toolbox said:

lol defense is a much bigger problem than the offense..

Defense didn’t lose us the game vs the Skins. The -3 in turnover differential did. 

[ThatsJustAJ]

On 10/15/2018 at 8:57 AM, hepcat said:

The problem with the offense is Cam is not good at passing in the red zone

...

[JARROD]

2 minutes ago, ThatsJustAJ said:

...

That’s what I mean— people say things like, timing isn’t his skill set, or he’s not a red zone guy or he’s not this or that,

all hyperbole, rooted in fantasy and skin color.

that comes from the signal callers as well,..

bringing in an old fart like Norv or weirdos like Mike Shula, not replacing Chud with another innovative young minded Chud is why Cam has these fantasy views of what he is or isn’t.

 

[XOBlackxJokerOX]

Not sure why any player, and a RB at that, can tell a QB what he does and doesn't have the capability of doing. Cam has run a version of the Air Coryell offense his entire career which doesn't focus on timing routes but rather big plays downfield or "feast or famine" plays with the read option mixed in. A new offense takes time, something the pundits forgot they said themselves (Tomlinson included) in the off-season when we got Norv. I'd take these hot takes with a grain of salt. Give the man some time, learning a new offense isn't a fast process.

[XOBlackxJokerOX]

23 minutes ago, gorillamilitia13 said:

Defense didn’t lose us the game vs the Skins. The -3 in turnover differential did.

Yeah the defense was so great that they respected it enough to go on 4th and 4 and get much more than that. The defense couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop all but one or two third down conversions the entire game.  It was the defense. Moore's fumbles didn't help but the defense made the offenses job that much harder. I think most are well aware the INT was a tipped pass. 

[gorillamilitia13]

16 minutes ago, XOBlackxJokerOX said:

Yeah the defense was so great that they respected it enough to go on 4th and 4 and get much more than that. The defense couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop all but one or two third down conversions the entire game.  It was the defense. Moore's fumbles didn't help but the defense made the offenses job that much harder. I think most are well aware the INT was a tipped pass. 

You got a point. We couldn’t get Alex fugin Smith off the field.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

27 minutes ago, XOBlackxJokerOX said:

Yeah the defense was so great that they respected it enough to go on 4th and 4 and get much more than that. The defense couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop all but one or two third down conversions the entire game.  It was the defense. Moore's fumbles didn't help but the defense made the offenses job that much harder. I think most are well aware the INT was a tipped pass. 

There was no tipped pass and Cam had his arm hit when he tried to pass the ball and it went wrong direction.