Why do casual football fans blame Cam instead of Ron for this mess?

[Peppers90 NC]

Quarterbacks always get the blame or the glory

[Mr. Scot]

9 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Meh, casual fans or observers of anything, sports or otherwise, know just enough to formulate an opinion but not enough to realize it is not based on anything but their own misunderstandings, limited knowledge (which is due to them being casual fans/observers), and biases.

I agree, Rivera is not that bad.  But the Pats losing to the Eagles last year by 8 (the last three being on a late fumble in the scramble to try and pull ahead) is not that bad.  Anybody think Belichick thought "not that bad" was good enough?  It just depends on what an organization really wants (what they will accept, everybody says they want to win the Super Bowl every year).

The difference is the upper crust of coaches can find a way to steal wins with in game adjustments or game plans devised for a particular opponent,  the guys like Schottenheimer, Green, and I would add Reid are going to win and lose in predictable fashion.  They are stabilizers, who can get a set number of wins (determined by how good they are at it) out of any roster.  I used to say, after he moved on, that John Fox could get 7-9 wins out of any team, whether it was the 2006 Lions or the 2007 Patriots.  Parcells could have been in that same group, but his teams were strong enough to do the predictable better than their opponents could prevent it.

Wyche, was an innovator who just happened to have the misfortune of capping off a potential championship season against the Walsh-coached, Montana-executed 49ers.  The Bengals game plan and execution was enough to win that game against almost any other team of the time.

Then you have Tom Coughlin, who fits the stabilizer pattern in every respect except the two playoff runs that netted Super Bowls with the Giants.  Even those game plans were predictable, it was just the execution was light years above what they had exhibited all year.

Pretty much.

A while back when we signed Leroy Hoard, I remember him saying "If you need three and a half yards, I'll get you three and a half yards. And if you need five yards, I'll get you three and a half yards."

That's pretty much how I look at Rivera.

It's been a long-standing complaint that a lot of Panther fans are comfortable with just being good enough to be in the mix. Sad to say it seems to be true. I think that's why there are some who are too scared to part ways with Rivera because it involves taking a risk.

Me? I'll take that risk. Sure, we might fail and have to start over again, but we also might succeed.

Even a misstep is preferable to just running on the hamster wheel.

[top dawg]

48 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't think it's that simple.

Part of the problem is that so many want to go to one extreme or the other. Rivera is either the best coach in the NFL or a guy who sucks so badly he couldn't even coach a high school team. And people who ascribe to one of those two mindsets automatically assume that if you don't take their opinion, you must believe the other.

That's not true.

Me? I think Rivera is a good coach, but not good enough to win championships. That puts him in the company of guys like Dennis Green, Marty Schottenheimer, Sam Wyche and others who, while they left the game with good to great win-loss records, never won it all.

Well, I do believe that Rivera is good enough to win championships. Hell, he almost won one when no one expected it. A decent LT, an uncharacteristic fumble and a blown call were the difference.

Like Jim Rome says in so many words: "Don't mistake hasn't won a championship with can't win a championship."

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Well, I do believe that Rivera is good enough to win championships. Hell, he almost won one when no one expected it. A decent LT, an uncharacteristic fumble and a blown call were the difference.

Like Jim Rome says in do many words: "Don't mistake hasn't won a championship with can't win a championship."

We had a decent LT (Oher). The RT was the problem there, personnel wise.

But here's the thing: Coaching could have made an adjustment to compensate for Remmers getting beaten. They didn't.

Back in 2003, Dan Henning scrapped the entire game plan at halftime and started from scratch. It almost won us a Super Bowl. What did Ron Rivera and Mike Shula do to compensate for us getting beat on a pass rush?

Nada. Which is also how many changes they made to the game plan in general. Even the Broncos were flabbergasted that they saw nothing new whatsoever.

Those are not the actions of a smart coach, nor are they the only dumb decisions Rivera's made, sadly.

We need better. We're probably not going to get "better", but we do need it.

[top dawg]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We had a decent LT (Oher). The RT was the problem there, personnel wise.

But here's the thing: Coaching could have made an adjustment to compensate for Remmers getting beaten. They didn't.

Back in 2003, Dan henig scrapped the entire game plan at halftime and started from scratch. It almost won us a Super Bowl. What did Ron Rivera and Mike Shula do to compensate for us getting beat on a pass rush?

Nada. Which is also how many changes they made to the game plan in general. Even the Broncos were flabbergasted that they saw nothing new whatsoever.

Those are not the actions of a smart coach, nor are they the only dumb decisions Rivera's made, sadly.

We need better. We're probably not going to get "better", but we do need it.

 

Coaches can't do much when players aren't executing, period!

Dropped passes, fumbles, tipped interceptions, terrible pass and run blocking, etc.

I would encourage you to google an inferior site's 

"Super Bowl Myth: Carolina Panthers offensive line got no help

Debunking one of the biggest myths about the Carolina Panthers in Super Bowl 50."

So all this about the coaching doing nothing should be taken with a grain of salt. 

Like I've consistently said about this skid, no coach in the world is going to succeed when the QB is throwing picks, especially in the red zone. Players have to execute, particularly your franchise QB.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, top dawg said:

Coaches can't do much when players aren't executing, period!

Dropped passes, fumbles, tipped interceptions, terrible pass and run blocking, etc.

I would encourage you to google an inferior site's 

"Super Bowl Myth: Carolina Panthers offensive line got no help

Debunking one of the biggest myths about the Carolina Panthers in Super Bowl 50."

So all this about the coaching doing nothing should be taken with a grain of salt. 

Like I've consistently said about this skid, no coach in the world is going to succeed when the QB is throwing picks, especially in the red zone. Players have to execute, particularly your franchise QB.

Yeah, I've heard that from Ron Rivera too... for about eight years... every time we lose.

It's amazing how he's managed to go this long without ever making a coaching mistake 

[top dawg]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, I've heard that from Ron Rivera too... for about eight years... every time we lose.

It's amazing how he's managed to go this long without ever making a coaching mistake 

It's also a myth that Rivera never accepts responsibility or has never admitted making a mistake.  

[top dawg]

Bottom line is is that players have to execute, or it's basically all for naught.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, top dawg said:

It's also a myth that Rivera never accepts responsibility or has never admitted making a mistake.  

That's true. There was that one time recently when he admitted that maybe the coaches did something wrong.

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's true. There was that one time recently when he admitted that maybe the coaches did something wrong.

Bottom line is that Rivera is a good coach. Whether he ever wins a Super Bowl is anyone's guess. Given his history and body of work, many owners would be glad to have him, regardless of what message board honks think.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

Bottom line is that Rivera is a good coach. Whether he ever wins a Super Bowl is anyone's guess. Given his history and body of work, many owners would be glad to have him, regardless of what message board honks think.

And if you're satisfied with "good", that's fine.

I'm not.

And for the record, there were people who thought John Fox would go on to glory elsewhere too. Didn't happen.

[top dawg]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

And if you're satisfied with "good", that's fine.

I'm not.

And for the record, there were people who thought John Fox would go on to glory elsewhere too. Didn't happen.

Cute.

"Good" can easily turn into "great" with the proper personnel and staff. Some of the "great" ones were horrible when they first started, but all the great ones have been "good" at some point along the way. 

I don't know of many people that thought that Fox would ever be great. 

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Hammerin'Cam1 said:

I hope we win a Super Bowl with Ron, Hurney, and Cam so much. If we do you won't have any credibility.

If you're hoping we win a Super Bowl just so you can be right on a message board, you really need to reexamine your priorities. 

(Hint: winning a sports argument with a guy you've never met really shouldn't be this important to you)

If we win a Super Bowl, I won't give a rat's ass who was in charge when we did it. I'll just be happy that we won.

I don't believe that's going to happen with our current leadership, so I would like to see them replaced.

[Jmac]

Key word is "casual". If they live in the market and never or rarely watch, they get most of their input from the sports media. They are never on tv but once or twice a year, so if you don't live in the market ....same result. You have to watch the debacle on a regular basis to see the truth.