Changing the coaching and GM philosophy

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not sure I'd give the Colts much credit like someone did earlier in this thread. Sure, they've finally put together a solid OL, but Luck got beaten into early retirement because their OL struggled similarly to ours for most of his career.

I know a lot of people around here don't like Luck, but the guy was a VERY talented QB. It's a damn shame that mismanagement drastically altered the careers of two guys who should be perennial MVP candidates in Cam and Luck. Instead, one is already retired and the career of the other is in question, both due to injuries.

He was talking about Chris Ballard's Colts.

The stuff you're talking about happened under Ryan Grigson.

[LinvilleGorge]

I'm honestly don't care whether we hire a offensive or defensive minded head coach. I just want to hire a guy who is aggressive, willing to adapt, and who will hire good coordinators and then stay out of their way. A head coach is a manager and part of effective management is hiring good people and then getting out of their way and letting them do the damn job you hired them to do.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm pretty sure he led the team in rushing yardage and/or rushing TDs in every single season that he was healthy. That's unreal. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no player in NFL history has ever been saddled with consistently carrying as much of the offensive burden as Cam was for us in his prime. A bunch of naysayers always said that we were completely reliant on which Cam showed up, good Cam or bad Cam. I say, well no poo. That's the way it works if you put all of your eggs in one basket. Plan A was for Cam to be Superman and there was no plan B.

For Rivera's philosophy to work, it basically required a "Superman", someone who could be a one man offense.

The problem is you can't consistently win with that kind of approach. We came close, only we all but broke Newton in the process and couldn't sustain it after that.

Turner changed it but it was too late by that point. If he'd come along sooner, who knows?

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm pretty sure he led the team in rushing yardage and/or rushing TDs in every single season that he was healthy. That's unreal. I've said it before and I'll say it again, no player in NFL history has ever been saddled with consistently carrying as much of the offensive burden as Cam was for us in his prime. A bunch of naysayers always said that we were completely reliant on which Cam showed up, good Cam or bad Cam. I say, well no poo. That's the way it works if you put all of your eggs in one basket. Plan A was for Cam to be Superman and there was no plan B.

If this is indeed the end of the Cam Newton era in Carolina(or perhaps the NFL) then it will go down as one of the most tragically mismanaged careers in league history. He is/was such an insanely unique weapon offensively and the franchise ultimately let him down. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm honestly don't care whether we hire a offensive or defensive minded head coach. I just want to hire a guy who is aggressive, willing to adapt, and who will hire good coordinators and then stay out of their way. A head coach is a manager and part of effective management is hiring good people and then getting out of their way and letting them do the damn job you hired them to do.

Unfortunately for us, Rivera isn't much better at evaluating coaching talent than he is player talent.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Unfortunately for us, Rivera isn't much better at evaluating coaching talent than he is player talent.

Yep. Look no further than how long he held onto Mike Shula and the past and arguably current floundering of Eric Washington.

[TheRed]

Where are those 0-9 posts that were littered all over this subforum now that the Panthers have had the doors blown off twice in less than a month?

Imagine being stupid enough to post that poo after watching Cam Newton only 2 years ago drag this offense to the postseason kicking and screaming while throwing to practice squad receivers. Now ask yourself what the Carolina Panthers could have accomplished with a prime Cam Newton and an offensive minded head coach from the start.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

I am completely fine with moving on towards a more offensive minded HC.  I don't particularly want to replace both in the same off season.  With the cap limitations Hurney 2.0 had, I feel he did a good enough job to return.

And I don't trust the timing of hiring both positions in a single off season.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, TheRed said:

Where are those 0-9 posts that were littered all over this subforum now that the Panthers have had the doors blown off twice in less than a month?

Imagine being stupid enough to post that poo after watching Cam Newton only 2 years ago drag this offense to the postseason kicking and screaming while throwing to practice squad receivers. Now ask yourself what the Carolina Panthers could have accomplished with a prime Cam Newton and an offensive minded head coach from the start.

Hell, all we needed was a coach/coordinator that was capable of making adequate adjustments in the game and we'd have a Super Bowl trophy.

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

I am completely fine with moving on towards a more offensive minded HC.  I don't particularly want to replace both in the same off season.  With the cap limitations Hurney 2.0 had, I feel he did a good enough job to return.

And I don't trust the timing of hiring both positions in a single off season.

I don't know how much sense it makes to just replace one, TBH. I think Hurney has done a decent job in round two but honestly he is probably no more than an average NFL GM at best. 

I'd rather have a completely clean slate and start to rebuild that front office and coaching staff at the same time.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yep. Look no further than how long he held onto Mike Shula and the past and arguably current floundering of Eric Washington.

Yeah, and that points up the other side of the coin.

Loyalty.

Rivera wants everybody to finish their story happy. Players, coaches, you name it.

Mind you, he's not entirely against letting somebody go. Lord knows he's done it. it's just that once he takes a personal interest in somebody, it's like trying to fire a bad college professor with tenure.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, TheRed said:

Where are those 0-9 posts that were littered all over this subforum now that the Panthers have had the doors blown off twice in less than a month?

Imagine being stupid enough to post that poo after watching Cam Newton only 2 years ago drag this offense to the postseason kicking and screaming while throwing to practice squad receivers. Now ask yourself what the Carolina Panthers could have accomplished with a prime Cam Newton and an offensive minded head coach from the start.

I don't even think it had to be an offensive minded head coach, just a head coach willing to adapt and hire the right offensive coaching talent. Keep in mind, Bill Belichick is technically a defensive minded coach.

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

I don't know how much sense it makes to just replace one, TBH. I think Hurney has done a decent job in round two but honestly he is probably no more than an average NFL GM at best. 

I'd rather have a completely clean slate and start to rebuild that front office and coaching staff at the same time.

When you have a losing record over 10+ NFL seasons there's plenty of evidence that you're not cut out to be an NFL GM.

I view Hurney about like I view Ron. They seem like truly decent guys and they can be successful if all the cards fall the right way, but they simply aren't good enough at their jobs to cover for anything that goes sideways and in the NFL it's virtually guaranteed that something is going to go sideways nearly every season.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't even think it had to be an offensive minded head coach, just a head coach willing to adapt and hire the right offensive coaching talent. Keep in mind, Bill Belichick is technically a defensive minded coach.

The other thing about Rivera is it's not that he makes the same mistakes over and over again. That's something that would be more easily correctable.

It's just that whatever choice he makes is all too frequently the wrong one.

He's conservative when he should be aggressive, aggressive when he should be conservative, patient with a guy he should sit and loyal to a guy he should dump, etc etc.

Some guys are just like that. And you can't really fix them.