The 34 and why it didn't work this year

[Matt62881]

6 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Every year he’s been GM this team has gotten progressively worse. 

Any good GM would have drafted the NT first as they take a year+ to develop. 

I do agree however NT should have been addressed first as its importance cant be understated. We already had lbs and with the signing of Bruce Irvin we were good there, but man how do you pass on Burns lol

[Matt62881]

1 minute ago, Harbingers said:

He was 4-3 not 3-4.

He was but with his insane strength I feel he could have added some pounds and been a 34 NT

[Harbingers]

Just now, Matt62881 said:

I do agree however NT should have been addressed first as its importance cant be understated. We already had lbs and with the signing of Bruce Irvin we were good there, but man how do you pass on Burns lol

You don’t. But then you also don’t promise to fix the OL to save your job and produce the worst OL this team team has seen in 20 years if not ever. 

[Harbingers]

Just now, Matt62881 said:

He was but with his insane strength I feel he could have added some pounds and been a 34 NT

Taken a year+ to add those pounds. Getting rid of Star was one of them dumbest moves this franchise has ever made and that’s saying something. We had arguably the best defensive front during their tenure together in this league. Star+his offman and KK+ his offman would eat up 3+ OL and 3 gaps. 

Now we have zero gap control cause everyone just wants to rush the passer and Luke is stuck with 1-2 OL in his face. 

[Matt62881]

3 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

You don’t. But then you also don’t promise to fix the OL to save your job and produce the worst OL this team team has seen in 20 years if not ever. 

Yea but there wasn't many FA tackles available and the rookies had a hard time because the interior was bad, not trying to defend Hurney but I thought paradis was going to be good too. Our line was way to inconsistent this year it was actually good for a game or two so there is potential.

[Matt62881]

4 minutes ago, Harbingers said:

Taken a year+ to add those pounds. Getting rid of Star was one of them dumbest moves this franchise has ever made and that’s saying something. We had arguably the best defensive front during their tenure together in this league. Star+his offman and KK+ his offman would eat up 3+ OL and 3 gaps. 

Now we have zero gap control cause everyone just wants to rush the passer and Luke is stuck with 1-2 OL in his face. 

I 100% agree with everything in this post! Thought hypothetically with nfl programs today he could add weight quicker then you'd think. If I can add 2 pds of muscle a week I'm pretty sure he could do much better.

[panthers55]

30 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

I really dont get the thought that luke cant play in the 34, his assignments are almost identical. He was mugged by olineman this year, it will make any lb look worse, he would have looked bad in the 43 too...if you think he looked bad. He still played at a very high level and in the first part of the year was easily the best lb in the league.

You answered your question. In a 3-4 the middle linebackers have to be able to take on I linemen and shed those blocks. He gave up almost 70 lbs in size. You can't count on the interior linemen to always take on 2 blocks especially on off tackle and outside zone runs.  We used more of a 1 gap penetrating scheme to get pressure rather than the 2 gap read and react scheme you are referencing. And both Luke and Shaq are not good shedding blockers which is why they got washed away so much 

[Matt62881]

5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You answered your question. In a 3-4 the middle linebackers have to be able to take on I linemen and shed those blocks. He gave up almost 70 lbs in size. You can't count on the interior linemen to always take on 2 blocks especially on off tackle and outside zone runs.  We used more of a 1 gap penetrating scheme to get pressure rather than the 2 gap read and react scheme you are referencing. And both Luke and Shaq are not good shedding blockers which is why they got washed away do much 

A proper 340 to 350 of NT can take 2 olineman every play and a 320 to 330 pd DE can sometimes take two...but the middle 340 to 350 guy is the one keep Luke clean...it would work in the 34 if we had a monster and they are out there. Derrick brown need to add some weight but he could fill the role. Got to control those double a gaps in the 34.

[Matt62881]

A good example of a proper 34 is the 2015 broncos....luke wouldnhave thrived in the ilb position because it was set up right.

[kungfoodude]

37 minutes ago, Forty-Eight said:

DE: Kawann Short

NT: Danny Shelton - Leki Fotu

DE: Gerald McCoy

OLB: Brian Burns 

MLB: Luke Kuechly 

MLB: Shaq Thompson 

OLB: Von Miller

Von Miller, Chuck? You gonna trade away draft capital for a guy that will immediately be the most expensive player on the team and account for about 76% of our available cap for 2020? 

So McCoy gonna play for free?

[Matt62881]

49 minutes ago, Forty-Eight said:

DE: Kawann Short

NT: Danny Shelton - Leki Fotu

DE: Gerald McCoy

OLB: Brian Burns 

MLB: Luke Kuechly 

MLB: Shaq Thompson 

OLB: Von Miller

 

DE: Kawann Short

NT: top 10 monster NT

DE: Poe and Gerald McCoy on passing downs

OLB: Brian Burns 

MLB: Luke Kuechly 

MLB: Shaq Thompson 

OLB: Bruce Irvin

Just my opinion, to me this would be similar to the 2015 broncos and that who we want to emulate , they did it right......it can create the most dangerous d in the league, harder to create but much higher ceiling then the 43.

[panthers55]

17 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

A proper 340 to 350 of NT can take 2 olineman every play and a 320 to 330 pd DE can sometimes take two...but the middle 340 to 350 guy is the one keep Luke clean...it would work in the 34 if we had a monster and they are out there. Derrick brown need to add some weight but he could fill the role. Got to control those double a gaps in the 34.

Pretty simplistic but let's go with it. Don't disagree that we needed a huge NT that can clog the middle but look how many times Luke was out of position and in the wrong gap.  In our old scheme he would be the first to the ball and have support, but this time in a 3-4 he was pushed out of position and out of his proper gap assignment which became increasingly more important as he was one of the last lines of defense. And he felt pushed to pick a gap because he tried to do too much when the run defense collapsed. Ray Lewis was 6'1"and 250 and criticized for being undersized. Compare that to Shaq.who is 230 and Luke who runs 235. They need at least 4 down linemen to be effective. But that doesn't mean our NT still shouldn't be a huge guy who can take on two guys routinely.

[Matt62881]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Pretty simplistic but let's go with it. Don't disagree that we needed a huge NT that can clog the middle but look how many times Luke was out of position and in the wrong gap.  In our old scheme he would be the first to the ball and have support, but this time in a 3-4 he was pushed out of position and out of his proper gap assignment which became increasingly more important as he was one of the last lines of defense. And he felt pushed to pick a gap because he tried to do too much when the run defense collapsed. Ray Lewis was 6'1"and 250 and criticized for being undersized. Compare that to Shaq.who is 230 and Luke who runs 235. They need at least 4 down linemen to be effective. But that doesn't mean our NT still shouldn't be a huge guy who can take on two guys routinely.

There cant be any olineman on our lbs for the majority of the plays. You also have to remember this is their first season in a new system. But go back and watch when we were healthy the first two games and watch luke hit the right gap 90 percent of the time...just saying I think he can play it without oline in his face. Shaq was also being hit by olineman making luke control more gaps.

[Matt62881]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Pretty simplistic but let's go with it. Don't disagree that we needed a huge NT that can clog the middle but look how many times Luke was out of position and in the wrong gap.  In our old scheme he would be the first to the ball and have support, but this time in a 3-4 he was pushed out of position and out of his proper gap assignment which became increasingly more important as he was one of the last lines of defense. And he felt pushed to pick a gap because he tried to do too much when the run defense collapsed. Ray Lewis was 6'1"and 250 and criticized for being undersized. Compare that to Shaq.who is 230 and Luke who runs 235. They need at least 4 down linemen to be effective. But that doesn't mean our NT still shouldn't be a huge guy who can take on two guys routinely.

I always talk about luke but sometimes shaq would be hit by a olineman and luke would be free with both a gaps to control...you can't have 1 lb controlling both a gaps.