Let’s get the record straight on S2

[TheMostInterestingMan]

Just now, rebelrouser said:

This is my fear. Stroud has a built in ceiling meaning he will be a decent starter or back up and that's it. You don't trade the farm for that.  

I’m not sure that’s a fair assessment either or that I agree with that necessarily. But I do think it’s the potential concern. Each one of these QBs could flop. And each of these top prospects could be long time starters. Again, this is just another piece of the puzzle in the end. But having a significantly lower score than his peers, if the leak is accurate, is a warranted concern. 

[TheMostInterestingMan]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Not being hostile simply pointing out obvious flaws in placing much stock in this test at this point. The problem is not in using it as one factor among another things in evaluating a QB, but like in the case of Stroud saying based on this research he stands little chance to be successful despite film of games showing the opposite.  As someone who administered cognitive and performance related tests for 30 years I know the limits of what they actually measure versus what they claim.

I agree that it’s silly to dismiss Stroud simply based on these scores. However I think if I have a similar grade on two prospects, or even three and I sit down and we go over where we rank them and it’s a stalemate, this can quickly become a useful tool.
 

So pros on Stroud are he’s got a prototypical frame and the most accurate arm in the draft. He’s taken lots of snaps under center in college. He’s well liked by his teammates. He has shown the ability to move fluidly in the pocket.

Cons on Stroud. He rarely has to go through his progressions in college. There were times he didn’t seem to be fully engaged on the field. He doesn’t appear to have elite running ability or elusive traits in the open field. He sometimes seemed to lock on to his first read when it wasn’t there.

Then we can do Bryce. We all know the pros and cons so I’m not writing it all out again. But let’s say there is a stalemate. At this point the S2 suddenly holds a lot of water. 
 

“I can’t decide between these two guys. They both of very different sets of strengths and weaknesses and both draw us to similar conclusions. I like Strouds accuracy but I like Young’s ability to keep his eyes down field while escaping pressure. I like Strouds arm strength but I like Young’s ability to go through his progressions. Nothing seems to separate them… except one glaring difference. One scored significant higher on this test than the other”

My argument is it’s a tool: I’m not saying you are invalid or that your questions are invalid. I’m not saying that the S2 is being overhyped or under hyped. I admit that I personally can see a great benefit in its correlation to talent evaluation and I’m coming around to being a believer. I also knows that reportedly only half the teams in the league currently value it and the others aren’t very interested in it.

But in this context, I think I it can help decide on a prospect when you are otherwise torn. It may be different if we hear news that asteroid actually scored a 70 even. But scoring 18 shows a massive drop off to all the other top prospects. Enough that if I’m torn between to and one scores as the absolute best in the S2 and the other scores amongst the absolute worst, that likely guides me towards my decision. 

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, TheMostInterestingMan said:

I agree that it’s silly to dismiss Stroud simply based on these scores. However I think if I have a similar grade on two prospects, or even three and I sit down and we go over where we rank them and it’s a stalemate, this can quickly become a useful tool.
 

So pros on Stroud are he’s got a prototypical frame and the most accurate arm in the draft. He’s taken lots of snaps under center in college. He’s well liked by his teammates. He has shown the ability to move fluidly in the pocket.

Cons on Stroud. He rarely has to go through his progressions in college. There were times he didn’t seem to be fully engaged on the field. He doesn’t appear to have elite running ability or elusive traits in the open field. He sometimes seemed to lock on to his first read when it wasn’t there.

Then we can do Bryce. We all know the pros and cons so I’m not writing it all out again. But let’s say there is a stalemate. At this point the S2 suddenly holds a lot of water. 
 

“I can’t decide between these two guys. They both of very different sets of strengths and weaknesses and both draw us to similar conclusions. I like Strouds accuracy but I like Young’s ability to keep his eyes down field while escaping pressure. I like Strouds arm strength but I like Young’s ability to go through his progressions. Nothing seems to separate them… except one glaring difference. One scored significant higher on this test than the other”

My argument is it’s a tool: I’m not saying you are invalid or that your questions are invalid. I’m not saying that the S2 is being overhyped or under hyped. I admit that I personally can see a great benefit in its correlation to talent evaluation and I’m coming around to being a believer. I also knows that reportedly only half the teams in the league currently value it and the others aren’t very interested in it.

But in this context, I think I it can help decide on a prospect when you are otherwise torn. It may be different if we hear news that asteroid actually scored a 70 even. But scoring 18 shows a massive drop off to all the other top prospects. Enough that if I’m torn between to and one scores as the absolute best in the S2 and the other scores amongst the absolute worst, that likely guides me towards my decision. 

Again it should factor little to nothing. Certainly not as much as it is garnering until there is more data. If we use it to sway us to Young it better be right or it did more harm than good if Stroud ends up the better QB in a few years.

[TheMostInterestingMan]

2 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Again it should factor little to nothing. Certainly not as much as it is garnering until there is more data. If we use it to sway us to Young it better be right or it did more harm than good if Stroud ends up the better QB in a few years.

I think this is where we ultimately disagree. But that’s not a personal attack on you by any means. I just think it is a very valuable tool and you do not. That’s fair enough. Half the league seems to think it’s very valuable and the other does not. So it isn’t surprising half this board would be the same. But my original point for posting this was NOT to defend its validity. It was to inform people of what it actually measures. Beyond that, we can have our different views on its outcome. I think it’s a very valuable tool and you think it’s more or less useless. Fair enough. I don’t think less if you personally for your opinion on it. We just see this differently.