Gamble & Marshall

[Urrymonster]

After someone dug up an intruiging site (Maine..) I really delved into all the little tidbits on our team and looked for stats and figures that could refute any of the common assumptions on this board.

First off a slgiht disclaimer. I am aware that these stats are not the be all and end all. There are bound to be discrepencies between what these guys have researched and actual defensive schemes and assignments. Despite this, these stats are the best indicator we have of factual evidence on our CB tandems performance.

One of the major ones was the assumption that Marshall is getting picked on more, giving up more and generally under performing. So, let's look at the stats

Gamble

• 
  Tackles - 49
  Missed Tackles - 8
  Thrown At - 65
  Receptions - 47
  Completion % - 72.3
  Yards - 596
  Average (ypc / ypa) - 12.7 / 9.2
  TDs given up - 2
  Interceptions - 4
  PDs - 5
  QB Rating - 85.2
  

Marshall

• 
  Tackles - 54
  Missed Tackles - 4
  Thrown At - 74
  Receptions - 47
  Completion % - 63.5
  Yards - 497
  Average (ypc / ypa) - 10.6 / 6.7
  TDs given up - 0
  Interceptions - 3
  PDs - 3
  QB Rating - 66.1
  

Now, obviously these statistics could be slightly swayed either way depending on defensive assigments, blown coverages etc. However, the core stats and fundamentals will still be relevant. Marshall is playing much better than Gamble. Flat out. Less TDs given up, much lower completion percentage and yards per attempt. He is even a MUCH more consistent tackler.

He has NOT been picked on. An extra 9 throws through the season and he has allowed the same number of completions as Gamble. In pure pass coverage Marshall has performed decently in comparison to the league, but penalties and his performance against the run has hurt him. He is allegedly in a group of 11 players who have played at least 25% of the defensive snaps NOT to have given up a TD. Amongst starters, he is alone. Again, the scheme pretects them both, but also prevents them from holding WRs to low completion percentages.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=5&numsnaps=0&numgames=1

Revis is scary...31 QB rating, with only 37.8% of attempts completed. He also has 22 PDs...Even more impressive considering they Jets have only 27 sacks, which is 22nd in the league, coincidently the same as us...

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=CB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=75&numgames=1

[Cyclonus]

Gamble is usually covering the other teams #1 WR. Marshall covers lesser WRs on most game days. Your stats are flawed.

[bigdog10]

There are no amount of stats that could possibly make me think Richard Marshall is a good CB.

He is out of position so many times a game, it is comical.

[Urrymonster]

Gamble is usually covering the other teams #1 WR. Marshall covers lesser WRs on most game days. Your stats are flawed.

Intruiging you should say that, consider there was a fairly high profile game where the #1 Wr ran rampant against us. I believe the main criticism from fans, was that Gamble was not following him round like a bad smell...

We do not dictate the matchups, in our zone based defense, so any OC that wants to move his number 1 onto Marshall can easily do that. In addition, Welker who is NEs #2, was mainly operating out of the slot and yet NEITHER Gamble or Marshall followed him around. He was allowed to go whereever the OC wanted him.

Considering that and by your logic, most OCs would simply match their best receiver onto Marshall. I believe it is you sir, who's logic is flawed.

[Urrymonster]

There are no amount of stats that could possibly make me think Richard Marshall is a good CB.

He is out of position so many times a game, it is comical.

Like I said, this can't account for blown coverages and the like.

The flip side of that arguement is that how and when do you know if Marshall is out of position when you have no idea what assignment he has.

Considering that neither you, I or they know the assigments, we can only rely on the core stats which are what happens when they are thrown at. Marshall is doing better, no one can deny that.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

I think Marshall's a pretty decent corner, and I hope he'll continue to improve.

[Kal]

Gamble is usually covering the other teams #1 WR. Marshall covers lesser WRs on most game days. Your stats are flawed.

I work at the aforementioned site and hope to get more involved over the season. I've done Player Paritcipation for a fair few Panthers games and this isn't true. Gamble is the left sided cornerback and never follows a specific man. Marshall moves into the slot in the nickel but is the RCB in base.

The opposition dictates who ends up on which man. Gamble has had some really bad games and isn't playing anywhere near the level he did last year.

[Achilles]

Why keep Marshall when Munerlyn is almost as good, should be as good or better next year, and has potentially more upside? Marshall could go back to nickel, where he was pretty effective at times, but Fox generally doesn't demote entrenched starters.

I think Marshall is the weakest link in the secondary, although Gamble has not really impressed me this season.

And as for the completion percentage, just look at the Patriots game. We were trying to play tight coverage, Gamble had that awesome pick, but ultimately when it looked like our pass def. was working against Brady and Co., the refs started calling interference and we had to back off. It's going to be the same when we play teams with monster passing games, like New Orleans, Indy, and even Atlanta (they have 3 or 4 good options that get open). Pass defense in the NFL is becoming like defense in the NBA. Ultimately, if you begin to get aggressive at all, you are gonna get called for a foul.

The NFL wants explosive offenses.

Still, 73% completion percentage for Gamble is absolutely unacceptable.

[Urrymonster]

I work at the aforementioned site and hope to get more involved over the season. I've done Player Paritcipation for a fair few Panthers games and this isn't true. Gamble is the left sided cornerback and never follows a specific man. Marshall moves into the slot in the nickel but is the RCB in base.

The opposition dictates who ends up on which man. Gamble has had some really bad games and isn't playing anywhere near the level he did last year.

Kudos to you and the guys working on it as well. I had literally been searching EVERYWHERE for stats on our corners as all we had to rely on before this were 'opinions'. Makes player analysis a lil more thought out.

Just wondering if you can shed some light on why Beason's overall, especilly pass coverage, is low? Comparing his coverage stats to Willis paints one picture, but his base coverage score paints another. Beason, appears to be every bit that Willis is...

Why keep Marshall when Munerlyn is almost as good, should be as good or better next year, and has potentially more upside? Marshall could go back to nickel, where he was pretty effective at times, but Fox generally doesn't demote entrenched starters.

Munnerlyn is a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately I think people are viewing him with rose tinted glasses. Afterall, so little was expected out of him, it was shocking to see him push out our second round pick. He 'could' be a great CB, but at the moment he is exactly like Marshall was two seasons ago, a high energy competitive player, who contributed in several areas. Only with a worse performance...

Munnerlynn has only managed 1 PD, given up 1 TD and also given up 67.6% of passes as completions along with a 98.8 QB rating.

Compare that to the 2007 Marshall season (they do not have his rookie season), who gave up 61.1% of passes as completions, a 54.4 QB rating and 0 TDs whilst picking up 2 Ints and 4 PDs.

[Urrymonster]

Double Post

[jramsey4]

Whats the actually website address? I want to check this site out.

[Urrymonster]

Whats the actually website address? I want to check this site out.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/home.php?tab=home

[CRA]

hasn't Marhsall been replaced a lot by Captain in games? Where Marshall is off the field and Captain is playing as the #2....while Gamble has played basically every down?.......that would skew those stats when purely looking at the total # of times the 2 were thrown at.

plus, the site is a tad bogus imo with there breakdowns....I mean Matt Moore got a negative rating for the Vikes game.....obviously the means they apply and breakdown stuff is off.

[jramsey4]

I was looking at DE who lead the sack in QB pressures (finally a site that has them) and Pep is 6th in the league. But guess whos 1 and 2, Mathis and Freeny. Looks like we both got better on D with the Meeks firing/hiring.