Did all this actually start last season?

[firstdayfan]

I was thinking about the draft today and realized how much we gave up to move up in the second round last season. Then I thought about how much we have given up so far this season as far as players. Is it possible that the FO began this new direction last season when we practically gave away a first round pick for a second and a 4th?

Now we don't have to overpay some young new talent that we may get through the draft. Trading for Brown last season actually is going to save us money this year!!! Not to mention that we barely signed any free agents last offseason as well. Kinda makes me think that JR and the FO have had this in the works for at least a year or so...maybe longer.

[HSCBandit07]

So keeping Peppers was a 20 million dollar diversion!

[Lout]

If that were the case, then Fox and Hurney should be getting extension's soon.. otherwise none of them would agree to revamping the team this late into their contracts. Fox and Hurney are acting like they have all the time in the world.. I am thinking it was more of a coincidence.

[blackcatgrowl]

I think you're giving them waaaaay too much credit.

My take on things:

Fox and Hurney honestly believed that the 2008 team would go deeper into the play-offs in 2009 after the Arizona loss, and tried their best to keep the same roster.

In their mis-judgement, they forced a completely unmotivated or disillusioned Julius Peppers to continue to play for us, and blindly leaped into a multi-year contract with a QB that came off his worst performance in his career in a very important divisional playoff game.

Additionally, they used our upcoming drafts as a down payment on this gamble, and mortgaged our team's future by not rotating out some lack-luster players with fresh faces. And I don't necessarily mean rookie faces, even a proven stable veteran would have been good in certain spots.

So now, they are in panic mode. They realized that the team is too old and stale, but rather than bring in new talent first and try them out, they are proverbially "whacking off the gangrene" in a wholesale age-31+ contract slaughter.

And I'm convinced they have sold JR on the idea that with a seemingly certain lockout in 2011, keeping high-cost contracts is a bad "business" move, and after the new "NFL" emerges post-2011, they can start over with new lower contracts for new players, and there are no bad feelings towards the team for locking out a bunch of mostly 2-year and 3-year no-name players (with the exception of Williams, Smith, Beason and Stewart).

Sounds good on paper, but if this is true, it sucks for us as fans. Why? Because the expectations for the team will be at an all time low, and their production will show it. We'll be watching scrub-ball. Yeah, sure, those 4 guys I mentioned above will keep a small flame alive... but with Fox's oh-so predictable "smashmouth" play calling, and a D-Line of backups and under producers, that flame won't burn all that bright..

It sucks worse for the players truthfully. They get to show up for work with bosses saying on one hand "we have to win", then on the other not really caring about winning and doing what needs to be done to give them a winning chance.

Now... I could be wrong about all this.... and I hope I am... and the Front Office could really start making some moves. But successful teams replace as they go, not lop off the veteran core and expect to do well.

[Davidson Deac II]

I do believe that when they moved up to get Brown, the thought that Peppers might be leaving was in the back of their mind. It was certainly in the back of mine.

[MrBubba]

I do believe that when they moved up to get Brown, the thought that Peppers might be leaving was in the back of their mind. It was certainly in the back of mine.

I agree that Brown was peppers insurance. But last April, I think they had already made up their minds to keep Peppers regardless of cost, since if you were going to trade him, it should have been done before the draft. But they perhaps thought, Peppers would be gone now. Of course our pass rush coming off 2008 was horrible, which is really why Brown was taken.

[Davidson Deac II]

I agree that Brown was peppers insurance. But last April, I think they had already made up their minds to keep Peppers regardless of cost, since if you were going to trade him, it should have been done before the draft. But they perhaps thought, Peppers would be gone now. Of course our pass rush coming off 2008 was horrible, which is really why Brown was taken.

When I said they had it in their minds that Peppers might be leaving, I meant leaving in 2010. I think they were pretty certain Peppers would be in Charlotte in 2009, or that they would get a lot for him.

[firstdayfan]

I do believe that when they moved up to get Brown, the thought that Peppers might be leaving was in the back of their mind. It was certainly in the back of mine.

I'm not necessarily saying that picking Brown was part of the "master plan" but the act of giving up a future first round pick was.

To those that said they felt like last year was the year I agree...I think they sunk all their cash into keeping Peppers for one more run but didn't get tied up long term with anyone. They gave away a first, didn't sign any big time free agents hoping that they could make one more deep run in the playoffs before cleaning house.

I really think they were fine with giving up this year's first because now they don't have to shell out big money for a first rounder. It just fits so well with the clean house, save money mentality...it all started last season. If true this is actually good news, it means that there is some sort of plan here and not just a massive exodus of some of the most consistent starters from the last few years (Diggs, Hoover, Lewis, Brayton, Muhammed...).

[turnmyleftheadphoneup]

i dunno... that's kind of far fetched. because a lot of analysts have said that this is a blind spot in the NFL. very little, if any, of the people who work in the NFL know what to expect next year. so to say that they're dumping all these players trying to set it up for 2011 is kind of stretching it. i think that what you'll notice more so will be teams operating as if there were no lock-out. which i strongly believe there won't be. cause i mean, could you imagine what the U.S. would be like without football every Sunday for 17 weeks? it would be complete chaos and pandemonium.

my take:

last year was a system change year... more than half of john fox's staff disappeared after the 2008 season, so JR brings in all these new coaches... gotta get the players use to the system. well... as the season progressed, maybe ron meeks started to realize that the way his system works is with the same style of players that he had in indy. that's why they drafted e. brown, let peppers walk... along with aging vets because they're looking for more speed at the positions. which leads me to believe that they'll get another pass rushing DE in the draft... and it also leads me to believe that JR is waiting to give fox an extension because of the whole lock-out situation. so this isn't just a rebuilding year in terms of what's going on right now... but more so of getting more speed and youth in, which could be good for the team.

think of the 1980 olympics when the US men's hockey team with a roster full of young fresh out of college players, who ended up going on to beat the soviets... with the right veterans in the right spots, our team could surprise the nation...

[blackcatgrowl]

ron meeks started to realize that the way his system works is with the same style of players that he had in indy.

Ugggh... that's no good. The kind of defense the Colts had while Meeks was there (i.e. crappy to average) is contrary to the ole' John Fox system of Heavy D/Run&Bomb O.

Unless we manage to acquire a Peyton Manning style gunslinger and convert to a West Coast offense, if you're right, we're doomed to 4th place in the NFC South.

[House]

I think you're giving them waaaaay too much credit.

My take on things:

Fox and Hurney honestly believed that the 2008 team would go deeper into the play-offs in 2009 after the Arizona loss, and tried their best to keep the same roster.

In their mis-judgement, they forced a completely unmotivated or disillusioned Julius Peppers to continue to play for us, and blindly leaped into a multi-year contract with a QB that came off his worst performance in his career in a very important divisional playoff game.

Additionally, they used our upcoming drafts as a down payment on this gamble, and mortgaged our team's future by not rotating out some lack-luster players with fresh faces. And I don't necessarily mean rookie faces, even a proven stable veteran would have been good in certain spots.

So now, they are in panic mode. They realized that the team is too old and stale, but rather than bring in new talent first and try them out, they are proverbially "whacking off the gangrene" in a wholesale age-31+ contract slaughter.

And I'm convinced they have sold JR on the idea that with a seemingly certain lockout in 2011, keeping high-cost contracts is a bad "business" move, and after the new "NFL" emerges post-2011, they can start over with new lower contracts for new players, and there are no bad feelings towards the team for locking out a bunch of mostly 2-year and 3-year no-name players (with the exception of Williams, Smith, Beason and Stewart).

Sounds good on paper, but if this is true, it sucks for us as fans. Why? Because the expectations for the team will be at an all time low, and their production will show it. We'll be watching scrub-ball. Yeah, sure, those 4 guys I mentioned above will keep a small flame alive... but with Fox's oh-so predictable "smashmouth" play calling, and a D-Line of backups and under producers, that flame won't burn all that bright..

It sucks worse for the players truthfully. They get to show up for work with bosses saying on one hand "we have to win", then on the other not really caring about winning and doing what needs to be done to give them a winning chance.

Now... I could be wrong about all this.... and I hope I am... and the Front Office could really start making some moves. But successful teams replace as they go, not lop off the veteran core and expect to do well.

While I agree it could very well suck for the fans, I don't think it will. You are also vastly underrating the talent still on this team.

Williams, Smith, Beason, and Stewart are only a small portion of the top tier talent the Panther's still have. The OL is loaded with Gross, Wharton, Kalil, Bernadeu/Robinson, and Otah. Our TE's, which were utilized more with Moore, are very good, King, Rosario, and Barnidge. WR is thin but we still have SS. Stewart and Williams are great RB's and Sutton showed a lot of promise also. If Goodson can cure the fumbilitis, that is a loaded position.

On D there is more than just Beason. T. Davis and either Connor/Anderson makes for one of the best LB cores in football. Gamble, Marshall, and Captain are very good young DB's. Gamble is one of the better DB's in football. Harris is an enforcer and Martin/Godfrey are both good FS. On the DL, I think that Johnson should have been starting ahead of Brayton last year. Brown showed a lot of potential, he will not be a Peppers but together they will be a force. We have a load of huge young talent at DT because of all of the trades we made last year.

Add to these guys the draft, if we do it well, which we usually do and you have a very good young team. Maybe not a SB winning team but I will guarantee you that they will be fun to watch and will probably make the playoffs.