Reasons to trade down...

[SorthNarolina]

We all know that but in this thread what is it that you are refering to???

I'm too stupid to figure it out.

[MHS831]

Might be able to pull out dropping down to 17th or 18th in the first (or somewhere around there) and be able to pick up a 2nd and 4th rounder, might be able to get a late rounder thrown in (late 5th or 6th rounder).

Would that be worth it? The 17th, 49th, and 119th draft picks for the first.

No. We would be screwed. But New England has the 17th pick, and the 32nd (If they win the Super Bowl), the 33rd pick (thank you, Mr Hurney) and the 64th pick. According to the draft trade chart, we still are screwed.

The thing to do is find a team like Cincinnati who has many needs but really covet a player, like DaQuan Bowers. They can't affort to give up picks any more than we can. However, they might give us a first rounder in 2012 (the difference is 1200 points between #1 and #4--the average first round pick is worth 1000 points). We would then have 2 first rounders next year, in the Luck Sweepstakes. Bowers is the best 4-3 DE in the draft, probably the best player in the draft if you look at his Peppers-like potential. Anyway, After Bowers there are three picks left. We would be happy to take Green, Fairley, Peterson, or Dareus there. If Denver takes Peterson and Buffalo grabs Fairley, we still have a choice between Green and Dareus + a number one next season. Marvin Lewis will be wanting to win now, so trading a pick from 2012 may not bother him. His pass rush was horrible last season. He may bit. Since every other pick (except Green) has a cousin very similar in quality and stature, it would be hard to sell the first pick to them. Someone has to want Bowers, IMO.

The talent drops off around the 7th or 8th pick, so I would not trade down to the middle of the first round, unless I got a bunch of picks this year and next.

[tvandenberg]

I would like for once, a first round pick, a second round pick, and a third round pick.

That would be so great, for once. Hope it finally happens.

On a side note, you misspelled Harbaugh in your Tyrod quote.

Harbough

[Cat'sGrowl]

Don't let another team bend us over the table.

Get great value or out of the trade, or keep the pick.

Don't trade just to trade.

[MadHatter]

Now I know lots of people have touched on this but I just gotta get this off of my chest. Quick summary at the bottom if you don't want to read the whole thing.

I've come to the conclusion that if we stay at #1 then Hurney will find a great player who will contribute right away and make an impact. He always hits on his 1st rounders and this wont be any different.

Luck was the only prospect that looked like a franchise stabilizing anchor that you can build around. The rest are the pieces you use to build around that anchor.

So that's the first reason. There isn't a massive discrepancy in talent like there has been in previous drafts. from 1 to 5 there is barely any difference and 1 to 12 is still pretty minimal. Think about the penalty of drafting Amukamara instead of Peterson. Not big enough of a drop off in my opinion. We'll know more with the combine of course.

Next is the franchise philosophy of "build through the draft". It's kind of hard to build through the draft when we have 1 pick in the first 64. It only gets amplified if Armanti Edwards does not work out. I'm really hoping he does though. I think he just needs time. But the fact that it's uncertain means we could have possibly busted the 33rd pick before the draft even started:eek:

So Hurney needs to hit a Grand Slam on this pick, get a guy that can make up for the Edwards Trade and whatever FAs we lose because of him. It's a huge task. Reminds me of that story about Jesus and the bread/fish thing. Hurney isn't Jesus, he can't feed 3-4 people with 1 portion of bread.

Also some people forget that build through the draft also means keeping the players you drafted.

It's going to be a lot harder with a #1 salary combined with the 5-6 core players all being FAs. Now the rookie cap may temper that threat some but it will still probably be expensive and I'm sure agents everywhere are trying as hard as they can to sniff out loopholes.

Would you rather pay a player that you know will deliver or the guy that you just have a good feeling about?

Also, it's not like Hurney hasn't hit on every single 1st rounder we've ever had. Many times our 1st rounder has done better than the other players drafted ahead of him. No matter where we draft we're getting a player.

The last time we traded down we traded Jon Beason and Ryan Kalil for Darrel Revis. One All-Pro for 2 slightly lesser All-pros? I'll take that every time.

So in short.

1. There isn't a huge dropoff in talent from the top 5 or 10.

2. Not enough "ammo" to build through the draft

3. Panthers have more holes than one player, no matter how godly can fill.

4. #1 pick will take up cap room needed to sign "the core".

5. Hurney hits in the 1st round no matter what.

Your logic on why we should trade down, is the same logic as to why other teams would not want to trade up.

[GoApps70]

Any possible trade would have to be judged upon it's own merits. Wouldn't hate it given the right circumstances.

[SorthNarolina]

Your logic on why we should trade down, is the same logic as to why other teams would not want to trade up.

If we actually want to apply logic it still works. The trade offs are always the same for every single deal, but the needs and wants of the 32 teams are always different. That's why trades happen. If the wants and needs of all teams were the same then trades would never ever happen.

We wanted jeff otah even if we had to blow next years pick, and the eagles figured they could do without their first rounder that year and having 2 1st rounders next would be nice. The pros/cons of trading were the same but both teams had different interests.

It only looks illogical if your figure both teams have the same exact problems/concerns/interests. It's not like the panthers are trading with the panthers. Two teams with a mutual interest find a medium where both parties feel satisfied. It's entirely logical or otherwise it would never happen.

[Mr ocho nueve]

Trade that damn pick Hurney!!!!

[MadHatter]

If we actually want to apply logic it still works. The trade offs are always the same for every single deal, but the needs and wants of the 32 teams are always different. That's why trades happen. If the wants and needs of all teams were the same then trades would never ever happen.

We wanted jeff otah even if we had to blow next years pick, and the eagles figured they could do without their first rounder that year and having 2 1st rounders next would be nice. The pros/cons of trading were the same but both teams had different interests.

It only looks illogical if your figure both teams have the same exact problems/concerns/interests. It's not like the panthers are trading with the panthers. Two teams with a mutual interest find a medium where both parties feel satisfied. It's entirely logical or otherwise it would never happen.

I am not disagreeing with you that trading down would be a good move. Hell, if we could pull it off I would be all for it.

There is not that "can't miss" guy at the top of this draft.

[MrBubba]

Another problem trading down for the Panthers is the image problem of JR and the Panthers being cheap. Like it or not; agree or not, that image is out there and if the Panthers trade down for a minimal deal, it will appear they are trading out of the top spot to avoid the big contract. I support the idea of trading down, I just hope they can get a property ransom for the pick, but that is doubtful, with a lack of an "it" guy in the draft.

[Razeyfingers]

I am not disagreeing with you that trading down would be a good move. Hell, if we could pull it off I would be all for it.

There is not that "can't miss" guy at the top of this draft.

Yeah well, hopefully someone will have a big need for something and want to trade for it.

I dont want to trade down so much because of the talent as I do the money. Cap space is pretty damn important and the Panthers are no strangers to the ceiling of it.

[Razeyfingers]

Another problem trading down for the Panthers is the image problem of JR and the Panthers being cheap. Like it or not; agree or not, that image is out there and if the Panthers trade down for a minimal deal, it will appear they are trading out of the top spot to avoid the big contract. I support the idea of trading down, I just hope they can get a property ransom for the pick, but that is doubtful, with a lack of an "it" guy in the draft.

heh, so you speak with those other GM's all the time and they tell you that the word is "JR is cheap" huh?

dude, stop getting your facts from dumb rednecks

[Mr ocho nueve]

Another problem trading down for the Panthers is the image problem of JR and the Panthers being cheap. Like it or not; agree or not, that image is out there and if the Panthers trade down for a minimal deal, it will appear they are trading out of the top spot to avoid the big contract. I support the idea of trading down, I just hope they can get a property ransom for the pick.

It really won't bother me if they don't trade down, but we don't have any picks after that until the 3rd round, and unless they go crazy in FA, if there is one soon, it seems to me trading for some other teams first and second would be the smart move.

[MrBubba]

heh, so you speak with those other GM's all the time and they tell you that the word is "JR is cheap" huh?

dude, stop getting your facts from dumb rednecks

I was speaking of public perception of JR and the Panthers. If you don't believe the image of the Panthers as cheap is "out there" you haven't been paying attention. As I said in my remarks "agree or not" the image is out there. hell you had Jay Glazer (you know that redneck) on national TV calling the Panthers cheap. ESPN (those other rednecks Adam and Mort) spent a great deal of time talking about how the panthers might trade away Andrew Luck because of money. Denver just hired John Fox, and their fans are happy over a 2-14 coach, because they think he failed because the Panthers were cheap. Try paying attention to what's actually happening and not what you wish it to be.