The Panthers’ Offensive Spending Is Misleading — and Bryce Young Is Paying the Price

[jfra78]

8 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

Sweet. 

Another "excuses for Bryce" thread. How about not dropping the ball before the defender even touches you? His fumbles have gotten out of hand

How about not spotting the other team multiple scores

[cranky]

7 minutes ago, Panthering said:

You are getting somewhere but just ignoring the elephant in the room still. It's true we haven't invested dollars into TE and WRs, but that's because we drafted heavily there and chose to spend it on the offensive line (which is a must & also has helped Bryce immensely) and defense (which was desperately needed). You can't just pay money everywhere & there is isn't much to find in FA with WR & TE as we've learned, the QB has to elevate these guys at some point.

There is talent there, in fact that talent actually stepped up and made a few plays last week. But the QB still is responsible for making the offense function and he struggles to do that on a basic level. His inconsistent mechanics mess with timing, his weak arm puts his guys in a bad position frequently, his deep field accuracy is just poor. He still doesn't have a command of the offense pre-snap at times. 

I'd say his weapons let him down sometimes, TMac has an obsession with trying one handed catches for no reason, Jimmy Horn can barely line up properly pre-snap, XL has been inconsistent at best, Coker injured, Renfrow pops here and there but is clearly a veteran. TEs have been a rotating cast of guys, but Evans made something work on Sunday. 

Most of the great QBs have had a great WR or TE to go along with them. But they BOTH are great together and that makes it so productive. Bryce just isn't great and therefore isn't that productive. You guys keep thinking he can't have an explosive game with awesome, eye-popping statistics because of his teammates when it's really just him. 

I truly think TMac might end up being a very, very good football player for us. Bryce can't even get this guy a Touchdown for us yet. This is one of the big reasons it would help answer a lot of questions if we could see the same offense with another NFL QB in there that is actually decent. 

I appreciate everything you say. I would only add that Bryce did have that great receiver in Theilen (at least for him). Losing him set him back. There is a lot potential in the rookies but at this point, it is just potential. 

[Jackie Lee]

3 minutes ago, cranky said:

I appreciate everything you say. I would only add that Bryce did have that great receiver in Theilen (at least for him). Losing him set him back. There is a lot potential in the rookies but at this point, it is just potential. 

If you get targeted 137 times you better get 1000 yards lol. Doesn't really matter who the receivers are because the defense is always going to play Bryce the same way, which limits the playbook, which almost everyone on this board agrees with. 

[cranky]

14 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

This cranky person is either a close relative of Bryce or else has a massive man crush on him. 

Just tired of the Panthers going form one QB, to another to another to another to another to another to another. They had mayfiled but he wasn't good enough for anyone around here. They had Darnold but again, he wan't good enough for anyone around here. Now it's Bryce. I saw what he is capable of last season with Theilen and Coker. I'm not ready to give up on him simply because he's not performing to the same level with rookies, undrafted free agents and a reclamation project.

[cranky]

5 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

If you get targeted 137 times you better get 1000 yards lol. Doesn't really matter who the receivers are because the defense is always going to play Bryce the same way, which limits the playbook, which almost everyone on this board agrees with. 

Theilen was targeted 62 times last year, had 12.8 yrds/rec and a 77.4% catch rate. Not sure where the 137 comes from.

[Panthering]

14 minutes ago, cranky said:

I appreciate everything you say. I would only add that Bryce did have that great receiver in Theilen (at least for him). Losing him set him back. There is a lot potential in the rookies but at this point, it is just potential. 

I agree! I even mentioned when we traded Adam that it was going to come with short term pain at the expense of Bryce, but long term benefit of a decent draft pick. 

[Panthera onca]

3 minutes ago, cranky said:

Just tired of the Panthers going form one QB, to another to another to another to another to another to another. They had mayfiled but he wasn't good enough for anyone around here. They had Darnold but again, he wan't good enough for anyone around here. Now it's Bryce. I saw what he is capable of last season with Theilen and Coker. I'm not ready to give up on him simply because he's not performing to the same level with rookies, undrafted free agents and a reclamation project.

Plenty of folks wanted to hang on to Baker and Sam, especially Baker as he had already produced and been successful with a historically poor franchise. That was all Rhule being the idiot that he is famous for. Hanging on to a meh, unathletic, tiny QB with a weak arm and beta personality will only continue to torpedo this franchise into oblivion.

[Jackie Lee]

Just now, cranky said:

Theilen was targeted 62 times last year, had 12.8 yrds/rec and a 77.4% catch rate. Not sure where the 137 comes from.

The prior year when he actually played a full season....

[cranky]

6 minutes ago, Panthera onca said:

Plenty of folks wanted to hang on to Baker and Sam, especially Baker as he had already produced and been successful with a historically poor franchise. That was all Rhule being the idiot that he is famous for. Hanging on to a meh, unathletic, tiny QB with a weak arm and beta personality will only continue to torpedo this franchise into oblivion.

That's not how I remember it but I won't argue the point. 

[cranky]

7 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

The prior year when he actually played a full season....

Gotcha. You are right, he was target 137 times. That will happen when your other receivers are Jonathan Mingo, Terrace Harshall Jr, DJ Chark, Laviska Shenault Jr and Ian Thomas. 

You know who else had close to 137 targets, Greg Olsen in 2015 with Cam Newton. He had 124 targets and a little over 1100 yards. Getting a lot of targets usually leads to a lot of yards

Cam had Olsen in 2015, Young had Theilen in 2023. 

[CRA]

We went out and bought the most expensive OL in the NFL for him

We paid 2 1k rushers in the backfield

sure, we didn’t go out in FA to once again give him basically the complete perfect cast in FA a 3rd freaking time.   We got a team to build and literally every resource can’t be devoted to Bryce.

But most of our best draft collateral has been devoted to Bryce.  

the entire argument of drafting him is that we wouldn’t be doing what we are doing. 

the spending isn’t misleading.  The investment needed around him has been off the charts overall and he still is Clausen-ish.  
 

 

[Bear Hands]

The draft investment is even more critical than FAs, so it's misleading to, well say 'its misleading because they didn't work out' and the positional salary allocation matters.  You invest highly in a draft with the expectation/timeline of a second contract in the near future.  So it directly relates to positional allocation.  Unless you're stuck with an imbecile GM.    

Skill Positions:

2025: R1 WR, R4 RB, R5 TE, R6 WR

2024: R1 WR, R2 RB, R4 TE

2023: R2 WR

Since picking him at 1, we've drafted 4 wideouts, 2 RBs, 2 TEs.  Also factor in bringing in Coker (UDFA), Dowdle, & Thielen.  Not to mention trying Diontae.  We've done plenty. 

Also factor in that FAs kinda-maybe of have a say where they want to go.  

You can play the game with wishing we drafted someone else, but you can't say the framework wasn't sound. It was, we've just done poorly in choosing the talent to bring together.