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Taking the 15th ranked player with the #1 overall pick doesn't make much sense...

Darth Urious

By Darth Urious,
in Carolina Panthers

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theyhateme45 Newbie

theyhateme45

Posted
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First question you asked first:

No, QB is not the most important position... as evidenced by the Panthers squad that made the Super Bowl... Football is a team sport, and Stephen Davis, Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad, and a stingy defense had way more to do with that run than Jake Delhomme did... The stuff that Jake did have going for him that year was that he was an unknown, and there wasn't much to look at on tape of him that anyone cared about...

See I think this is where we see things differently and disagree. I believe that is a good example of why the QB position is so important. I do agree that you do not need a great Franchise QB to get to the superbowl.... I believe if you can have one year with great talent all around, a decent defense, and some luck you can win a superbowl or have a chance...Example, Panthers, Buccs, Ravens.

However, I feel that kind of formula will only allow you to make 1 strong run because it is hard to keep all those pieces together and be consistent with a mediocre QB. I feel this is the blame for the panthers inconstancies and inability to be a player year in and year out...

But.... If we had top notch QB play we could consistently be a player in the postseason most years.... Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Saints with Brees now Rams/Cardinals under Warner.

So while I agree you can make a run without a top QB, I do not believe it can be done consistently without...

And that was all the fuss on here about John Fox... He could not do it consistently, so apparently JR and our Fan base wants a consistent winner.

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mav1234 Grand Master

mav1234

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Only what the coaches think matters. What anyone else thinks means sh**.

obviously. None of us are saying "MAN WE KNOW BETTER THAN THE PANTEHRS! Don't take Cam Newton!" we're saying "we don't know that the team is as sold on Cam as some of the fans around here are, and if they're not, they shouldn't take him (and probably won't)."

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Darth Urious Newbie

Darth Urious

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I still really believe the pick will be between Dareus, Green, Peterson, and Miller if we stay at #1, with Dareus and Miller (surprise!) being the leading candidates, with Green and Peterson rounding out that order...

If we could trade down a few spots and pick up an extra pick, I think THEN they'll pull the trigger on a QB... but without that 2nd rounder to reinforce your comfort level, you play it safe at #1...

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

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Well for me the scope of influence on how a team runs doesn't get any greater than at QB. And I'm not just trying to find a player that can just get decent stats and start. I want the panthers to win more than I want stats and there's nobody in this draft that offers that more than cam newton. His greatest strength is that he knows how to win games more than dareus. What do you think is more likely to happen in the pros in the 4th quarter of a game? Cam leading a winning td drive or dareus singlehandedly penetrating a line for 3 straight downs TFLing the running back and sacking the qb, preventing them from marching down the field?

Add in the fact that you can pacify the other needs in later rounds

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Bj-Monster23 Newbie

Bj-Monster23

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I still really believe the pick will be between Dareus, Green, Peterson, and Miller if we stay at #1, with Dareus and Miller (surprise!) being the leading candidates, with Green and Peterson rounding out that order...

If we could trade down a few spots and pick up an extra pick, I think THEN they'll pull the trigger on a QB... but without that 2nd rounder to reinforce your comfort level, you play it safe at #1...

I agree with the trading down part...

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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Everyone loves bringing up 2003.

There is a big difference between taking a game manager up against Brad Johnson, Aaron Brooks, and Doug Johnson (Vick was hurt) and making the playoffs, than taking a game manager against Ryan, Freeman, and Brees and expecting to make the playoffs.

The year Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl the QBs in his division were Akili Smith, Tim Couch, and Kordell Stewart.

You guys still hanging on to those days need to realize that this isn't the same NFC South it was in 2003.

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firstdayfan Enthusiast

firstdayfan

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I get what you are trying to say but when you mentioned that about Luck it sounds more like talking out of your ass than an actual thought process. 1st overall pick is about changing a franchise...best place to do that is with a shiney new QB. You know why the colts, patriots, chargers, and so on never pick first? Hint: ita not bc of their coaches, or defensive tackles, wide receivers, or running backs...

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frash.exe Apprentice

frash.exe

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Why is miller even in the equation? We already have a guy to get 140 tackles a year at the linebacker position. I guess you can make a case for the 3rd round where Kelvin sheppard is if the value isn't there at DT or CB but no.1? Really? Cmon we already have one superstar in beason

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Sword Newbie

Sword

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Something tells me they see a little bit of Julius Peppers in Newton in the sense of the freak of nature sort of ability(maybe the ears too)..except this time I have feeling he would respond much better to JR asking him to lead the team lol. There might be fans that hope they go for the safe single that gets you on base but you still need others to score a run..Cam brings that home run potential that can win the game for you at any time..where's his rated by some media scouts doesn't matter in my eyes.

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Darth Urious Newbie

Darth Urious

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Well for me the scope of influence on how a team runs doesn't get any greater than at QB. And I'm not just trying to find a player that can just get decent stats and start. I want the panthers to win more than I want stats and there's nobody in this draft that offers that more than cam newton. His greatest strength is that he knows how to win games more than dareus. What do you think is more likely to happen in the pros in the 4th quarter of a game? Cam leading a winning td drive or dareus singlehandedly penetrating a line for 3 straight downs TFLing the running back and sacking the qb, preventing them from marching down the field?

Add in the fact that you can pacify the other needs in later rounds

To me, our DT situation is dire... and I don't think one will be there at the top of the third that will make it any less dire...

Really, I do see Cam, Gabbert, etc. as extremely average prospects... Sure, you may get a decent run with a couple of them, but none of them are franchise QBs...

Cam can want to win games as much as he wants, but JUCO and college won't transfer to NFL just by sheer willpower alone... Ask Dan Marino how bad he wanted a Super Bowl ring, and then holler at me about ability to win...

Dareus, Miller, and at least Green, can dominate players directly opposing them... Cam or any other QB will need help from a supporting cast... Right now, it scares me putting any QB we have or could get behind the same blocking that we had last year... yet nobody is really talking about that because all they see is the shiny new toy that will make them forget about Clausen...

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Darth Urious Newbie

Darth Urious

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Why is miller even in the equation? We already have a guy to get 140 tackles a year at the linebacker position. I guess you can make a case for the 3rd round where Kelvin sheppard is if the value isn't there at DT or CB but no.1? Really? Cmon we already have one superstar in beason

What do we have behind Beason?

James Anderson, a guy who finally showed up a little bit when the walls were crumbling around him...

Thomas Davis who is coming off a second major injury...

Dan Connor who is a baller but isn't a superstar...

What else?

In our scheme changes we'll likely need to roll at least five deep, all players possessing the ability to start in different looks... I see four up there, and Miller would immediately be #2 in that equation...

I'm more on the Dareus wagon, but I could see Rivera/Hurney causing a fuss by picking Miller...

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eViL jEsTeR Newbie

eViL jEsTeR

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My question for you is when would you like us to get a QB then??? This is not a Cam or this draft question.... Just a general how would you approach rebuilding our team for sustained long term success?

if we were drafting 15th..... yeah

we're drafting 1st. there is NO QB worthy of #1 in this draft so why waste the pick on one. rebuilding for long term success isn't done in one year with one draft. maybe next year if we pick 5th or 6th, we can get a better QB at 6th than taking newton at #1.

THAT'S how you rebuild for long term success!

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teeray Rookie

teeray

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There is a difference between bad blocking and QBs not getting rid of the ball. All those years people tried to say that Davis Carr had a bad O-line in Houston. No he didn't he just wouldn't throw the ball.

It also helps when your O-coordinator doesn't throw a rookie QB under center and call a play action pass on every obvious passing down when guys are blitzing up his a-hole.

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